Saddam verdict
That's THE hot major news all over all kind of media.
Khalid's response: Who cares?
Saddam is nothing but a political card American politicians are playing against the American public.
The day of the fall of Baghdad was the day that Saddam stopped being important to me, he lost the power and became history.
So now after three years of the shameful situation Iraq is in now, all what Bush's administration has to offer the public to gain some voted is Saddam's death.
And what exactly is his death gonna do to improve Iraq or life in Iraq? The sectarian tension or the security situation? The electricity or water? The curfews or the blocked streets? The puppet government or the dirty politicians? The loans of the billions stolen from Iraq as cash or oil since the invasion by Iraqi or Americans politicians?
Nothing at all.
I am not Happy about what's going on, As terrible as Saddam was, and as much as he deserves to be hanged, but definitely it shouldn't be done by occupations but by Iraqis. And those who are killing him, weather the traitors in the Iraqi government or the American officials behind them, deserve that verdict much more.
Here is what I think will happen: Saddam is not gonna be executed now, this small play is just for the current small elections. Now of course the appeal story will start, more and more episodes of Saddam's trial on TV, and then finally on the important elections of 2008, when also the miserable American administration won't have anything to offer to Americans as a shadow of success in Iraq, they will decide that the court decided again that he should be executed, right before the elections, the audience applause, curtain is down.
As our Egyptian brothers say: Ya akhy a77a, o ma3aha shakhra iskandarani.
*Also Check the blogs of other Jarrars that wrote about this: Raed and Majid
Mom was busy cause she was in Baghdad and had no internet, so she will soon inshalla.
**for more news and views from the Iraqi's themselves, visit the Olivebranch Network.
Khalid's response: Who cares?
Saddam is nothing but a political card American politicians are playing against the American public.
The day of the fall of Baghdad was the day that Saddam stopped being important to me, he lost the power and became history.
So now after three years of the shameful situation Iraq is in now, all what Bush's administration has to offer the public to gain some voted is Saddam's death.
And what exactly is his death gonna do to improve Iraq or life in Iraq? The sectarian tension or the security situation? The electricity or water? The curfews or the blocked streets? The puppet government or the dirty politicians? The loans of the billions stolen from Iraq as cash or oil since the invasion by Iraqi or Americans politicians?
Nothing at all.
I am not Happy about what's going on, As terrible as Saddam was, and as much as he deserves to be hanged, but definitely it shouldn't be done by occupations but by Iraqis. And those who are killing him, weather the traitors in the Iraqi government or the American officials behind them, deserve that verdict much more.
Here is what I think will happen: Saddam is not gonna be executed now, this small play is just for the current small elections. Now of course the appeal story will start, more and more episodes of Saddam's trial on TV, and then finally on the important elections of 2008, when also the miserable American administration won't have anything to offer to Americans as a shadow of success in Iraq, they will decide that the court decided again that he should be executed, right before the elections, the audience applause, curtain is down.
As our Egyptian brothers say: Ya akhy a77a, o ma3aha shakhra iskandarani.
*Also Check the blogs of other Jarrars that wrote about this: Raed and Majid
Mom was busy cause she was in Baghdad and had no internet, so she will soon inshalla.
**for more news and views from the Iraqi's themselves, visit the Olivebranch Network.
posted by Khalid at 12:13 PM
77 Comments:
Yeah, big deal about Saddam. Sure, he deserves to die, but then so do the American leaders that orchestrated the invasion of Iraq. His trial is a simple political farce.
I saw it the same way: the day when Saddam was captured was the day he became unimportant. Iraq has bigger problems now.
The shia celebrated in Sadr city yesterday.You people must be from somewhere else.
Everyone is asking the same question.
Why? Why did they die?
Some will refuse to believe,
even when the evidence is
IRREFUTABLE
You will see why we were sold on a war
And who profits from the death
of America’s finest men & women
It starts with a company called…
DRESSER INDUSTRIES.
This is the mission statement of Dresser:
We manufacture,
Market and service
the critical equipment
that forms the backbone
of the world’s energy infrastructure.
They provide the means of controlling the world’s energy.....
What does this have to do with the war in Iraq?
Prescott S. Bush
He was George Jr’s Grandpappy
And served on the Board of Directors of
Dresser Industries for 22 years
Even George Senior
Served on the board until
1998
That’s when Halliburton CEO
Dick Cheney acquired Dresser
In other words...
The Bushes had Cheney
Use Halliburton’s money to
Buy the family biz for 7.7 BILLION
Doesn’t Halliburton get most of its
Money from the American taxpayer dollars....?
Awarded through GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS?
Here comes the sticky stuff....
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION:
Before the Bushes had Cheney acquire Dresser Industries.....
Dresser bought a rival company called
KELLOGG in 1988
Ever heard of a company
Called KBR?
It’s a Halliburton subsidiary...
Otherwise known as
KELLOGG Brown & Root....
In 1988, Dresser Industries acquired M.W. Kellogg,
A pipe fabrication business started by...
Morris W. Kellogg in 1900.
Kellogg created technology for petroleum
Refining and petrochemical processing
And built facilities based on those
Technologies...
The Kellogg legacy remains an
Important part of KBR today.
In March 2002, Halliburton
Announced plans.......
to separate our business groups
Into two wholly-owned
Operating subsidiaries;
Halliburton’s Energy Services Group,
And KBR...
The “K” KBR
Is the same Kellogg owned
By the Bush family biz
KBR
just happens to be...
the recipient of BILLIONS
in taxpayer dollars
through...
NO BID CONTRACTS
This is why BushCo was so horny for war...
This is why our MEN & WOMEN
This is why Iraqi men, women and CHILDREN.....
Were sent to their deaths
The Mission in Iraq?
To keep KBR in Iraq
For as long as possible
In order to...
Control the world’s energy
And profit from the blood of
American and Iraqi Life
THAT’S WHY THEY ARE ALL DEAD
All Hail
The Great Profiteer
In Chief
IPO
NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS
If you consider yourself a
PATRIOT
If you love
AMERICA
Fight to
TAKE HER BACK
Bush & Zionists
HAVE COMMITTED
The most obscene crimes
AGAINST OUR PEOPLE
AND THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ
And must be brought to
JUSTICE
It may seem hard to beleive but not so very long ago the US was considered a place worthy of a few months of your post university, pre career travel.I grudgingly admit that there may be the occasional European who is crazed enough to not feel a complete disgust at any thought of showing effective support for the population who gave the world Bush jnr.Sadam. H. became history when he was located in a rat hole. It sets a further bad example of men far more dangerous than anything that exists in Iraq making a judgement better left to God. A better option may be to punish Bush and friends for the loss of so many lives, even the US troops are his victims if only they had minds to think with they would know it and go home.
Who care about Bush, it's all about Justice, I think it's Saddam Regime victims' right to see him punished.
I'm still waiting for the "hey look we just found osama" stories to come out about 4-7 days before the re-elect bush '08 election day.
- Keith
Hi khalid,
I agree with your theory that saddam won't be hanged. I don't know why but I just don't see the hanging happneing any time soon really.
Dreamer
Khalid, do you know your post was covered by the Christian Science Monitor?
wallah... 3eeb hadhi a77a! ;)
I agree, it is basically a political pawn- but it didnt do much good in alinti5abat, sa7? Insha2Allah things will get a little better now...
Hey you guys had you chance for 25 years to hang the fool. Not our fault you guys left it to us.
There is an old saying "never send a boy....
[madtom] "Hey you guys had you chance for 25 years to hang the fool. Not our fault you guys left it to us."
Oh MY! Such logic! Woooo.
But riddle me this:
How did the Iraqi 'guys' have a chance all those 25 years when in all that time, the ball was actually in the USA's court and not Iraq's?
Care to solve the riddle?
Thank you Rhiannon, that's a very interesting summary. Do you have it published anywhere else? I'd like to be able to pass it along to others.
Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of Iraqis are tending to reminisce fondly about the good old days under Saddam...at least the lights were on and the water was running and you could gas up your car and go shopping without a fuss. I wonder how many votes he'd get if he were allowed to run for office? But today he seems like a toothless old lion, doomed to be used by others as a symbol. The trial was an obvious farce and whatever purpose it might have been originally intended to serve has long since been lost. To his victims, my apologies, but his execution seems singularly pointless at this juncture, it'd just be another excuse for a propaganda dog-and-pony show.
How did the Iraqi 'guys' have a chance all those 25 years when in all that time, the ball was actually in the USA's court and not Iraq's?
They could have bombed the transmission lines like the do today, and turned off the electric. They could have bombed the water mains and turned off the water, like they do today. They could have bombed each other and killed half a million other Iraqis like they do today, and taken their country back, like they are trying to do today.
It's kind of silly don't you think to blame the US for when saddam was in power, then to blame the US for removing him from power, to blame the US for the resistance, and to blame the US because saddam had no resistance.. Don't the Ba'athist and their supporters that lived off the suffering of the Iraqi people ever get the blame for anything?
"They could have bombed the transmission lines...."
"They could have bombed the water mains...."
"They could have bombed each other...."
==============
No, No, and No. They could not have, they didn't dare, and most importantly, they didn't want to, and besides they did not have the know-how, supplies, and weaponry to do so.
Now riddle me this:
Who do you suppose put Saddam in Power and gave him billions to do their bidding?
Who do you suppose didn't care at the time that Saddam was murdering his own people - and Saddam's shenanigans were actually SUPPORTED by this entity?
Most interestingly, who do you suppose is in charge - does the creating and orchestrating of the bombing of water mains, transmission lines, and escalating violence of the people of Iraq against each other - ESPECIALLY the HEAVY MASSACRE of the innocents: women, children, babies, scientists, doctors, scholars, teachers, University students, engineers, and so on?
I'll give you a hint: Shades of Palestine and Lebanon.
Care to try again?
Hi Melissa,
I have to hunt it down. THe Dresser Industries info is what I actually - painstakingly - copied from a very great video from another blogsite. This girl (or lady) posts so much info everyday that her good stuff can get lost if I do not write down exactly the date and titles of her information.
I would love to supply the link to the video but her site doesn't offer one.
I will see what I can do.
The video is very good.
Hello Grammatical Genius!
Where were you when I was posing a question about Jewish atheists?
I wanted your opinion!
I think you enjoy Halloween too much! There is a lot more to the world than candy, ya know!
;-)
BTW, thanks for the link.
Here Melissa, I found it. You will need to scroll down until you come across:
"America – seduced into war based on LIES" (name of the video)
I think the video is about 20 minutes long.
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/
==========================
"Just because we looked the other way with what saddam did to his own, in no way implies that we supported saddam."
======0
Well Jethro, my boy, you did. We all did. Whether you/we like it or not. Besides, YOU do not count. Just your taxes. The only thing that matters are the Neocon zionist elite who run the show -WITH YOUR TAXES- from their top offices in practically every state of the USA.
=========0
"I myself want to topple the regime in Cuba, but would be embarrassed to as ask the Americans to go die for me, and my people."
=========0
Where on EARTH do you get the notion that Iraq asked the Marines to come over? THey never did. Not once.
=========0
"Why should we always be the ones who donate blood for other's freedom."
=========0
Nobody asked for blood donations anymore than NOBODY ASKED FOR THE BLOOD-SHEDDING.
==========0
"If you suppose that the US and the Zionist put saddam in power and supported him all these years...."
==========0
I do not 'suppose'. It is a simple and plain fact.
===============0
"I don't understand why they are protesting today.
They should be cheering like they did for saddam."
1. Saddam was choosing the Euro over the dollar. NOT GOOD FOR THE USA ECONOMY. Time to say Bye bye to Saddam
2. USA needed a scapegoat for the massacre of 9/11. Osama wasn't enough. Kinda funny since the USA government MURDURED THEIR OWN - DON'T YOU THINK?
*Broadcast interruption*
Khaloooood Hiiiiiiiiii !!!!! ;) happy now?? hehe :D
*End of interruption*
this is ....
Bush, Cheney Meet With Senate Democratic Leaders
WOO HOO!!! We have taken over the Fascist regime that has run our country (and the rest of the world) to the ground these past years.
Long Live The House and Senate.
(We kicked ass!!! THANK GOD!!)
~one very hopeful American.
Heh heh.
Well Skiz what are the options? Surrender.
Maybe you will like to volunteer to have your head cut off. Or maybe you will submit and convert, and live your life out in the 14th century.
We could isolate ourselves, stop all foreign trade, stop all travel, forgo any sense of a joined planet and just hide out under our beds till the enemy decides they need more territory.
You may submit and live your life as a slave to Allah, and the whims and fancy of those who profess to speak in his name. I will not
As-salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatu Khalid,
Totally agree with you... it's all a farce... :(
Although Saddam *does* deserve the death penalty, I think that we can rest assured that whatever happens in this world, God will know EXACTLY what to do with him in the Aakhirah...
Your little sister in Islam,
'Mouse
such a shock
Four American Contractors Reportedly Kidnapped in Iraqi Convoy Attack
[AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY BRAINLESS] "My thing is to reach out and help my neighbor. The thought of killing and maiming my neighbor is anathama to me."
Why??
When all you know is:
"Rhiannon lives in Canada. Enough said. She is so stupid and has so few facts."
"Who really gives a shit? Just give them a bomb and let them explode it somewhere. Does it matter?"
"You religious idiots need to just line up against each other and start shooting."
=======================
My such BRILLIANCE! Bravo. Your post just says it ALL about you. So tell me, since you KNOW SO MUCH ....
Why anonymous? WHO are YOU? Or better....WHAT are you?
You have no profile. WHY SUCH A COWARD in light of such a fine upstanding report.
Now would you please explain, Oh brilliant one, what you mean by this mash of words tossed into a sentence?:
"Who really gives a shit besides the Southern Baptists and whatever form of the Koran that it takes."
==========
Everything you said made absolutely no sense. Especially about the southern baptists and Quran.
Are you HIGH? INEBRIATED?
BTW what NEIGHBOR are you talking about?
AGAIN you make NO sense when you bring up this neighbor thing.
Mind explaining what you mean, if you dare?
Better yet. Go buy a couple of cases of beer, scratch your butt -I mean your head - no your BUTT - and watch some Beverly Hillbilly Reruns. Try not to burp too loudly so as to not wake up your NEIGHBOR.
Take Madtom with you.
"Rhiannon lives in Canada. Enough said." Apparently our NEIGHBOUR thinks that Canadians are stupid by definition? Please, whatever you do, DON'T reach out and help us...
Yeap, it's blame america first no matter what. No matter if saddam attacked Kuwait, if he was massing armies on the Saudi border, no matter if he targeted our planes flying the no fly zones, regardless of if he was plotting to get us out of Saudi air bases. 911, whatever, just forget all that and call it an invading army. No provocation here, noting to see, just move along.
The fact that Bush is an idiot is completely out of my control, I vote for the other guy twice, but why would I take it out on the deployed soldiers. What a great idea cutting their ammunition so they could be over run and killed. What fault of theirs that Bush is an idiot.
The fact that you take some fool fighting over a PS3, and then extend that behavior to all americans makes you as much a fool as W.
SKiZM & Melissa :-)
And SKiZM, could you please translate?
I don't speak or read Arabic. I spent my formative years in the Midwestern parts of the USA.
I was around some Arabic speaking people but not enough as to learn to speak or understand Arabic.
Actually, I just think you are being a smarty pants and showing off!
:) just kidding
i absolutely agree even to non-iraqis like me ..it has the same effect ...despite closely watching it ...same old american cheap games ..
If your going to post your conspiracies, at least post them as links to make it easy to follow.
I know the UFO's and area 51 are all responsible for 911. Aliens transported the demolition crews into place and then used there tracker beam to pull the planes into the side.
On a brighter note, lets all pray for the brave martyrs that get caught in the crossfire between soldiers and terrorist. You each terrorist that gets killed saved hundreds of his intended targets the Iraqi civilians. It's Thanks Giving after all.
[truly the MAD tom]"I know the UFO's and area 51 are all responsible for 911."
Yowza! I had NO idea that the zionist regime had influence over those lovely and friendly UFOs!
Damn! The zionists not only have the deluded 'christian' WRONG in their pockets, they now have the UFOs and area 51!
My what death defying power!
Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it a USA-paid-for apache jet? or is it the Mossad in plain clothes or Iraqi police uniforms pretending to be Arabs?
NOOOOOOOOO!
It's the Zionist-powered UFOs!
By Golly! The zionist regime has amazingly extended its powerful tentacles-influence into Outer Space!
Now we have......THE REST OF THE STORY.
Good thing madtom didn't go with george for some butt-scratching, after all.
=================
Oh SKiZM....the agony of it all.
Four American Contractors Reportedly Kidnapped in Iraqi Convoy Attack
FWDWFWKFWF
Well Skiz that's a pretty good job of spaming Khalids blog. I'm sure he'll be real happy when he gets back.
Half that crap has nothing to do with 911, or this war.
The 200mpg carburetor is so old. I really think your tin foil hat might be out of alignment. Try retuning it to an earth bound trajectory.
Well I'm more like the "ugly" Cuban American. You know the ones that know exactly what it's like to live under the thumb of an evil dictator, a communist economy and a world that just looks the other way.
I know the US is not perfect, no one said it was. Nor is it wrong to highlight the mistakes, or misdeeds of the past or present to find a better way of doing business, so to speak. But to blame the US for all that goes wrong in the world is just plain stupid. The US is an experiment in freedom that is only 250 odd years old. No other people in the great expanse of history have accomplished so much in so little time. No where else on the planet has there ever been such a place, no is there now anywhere it's equal.
Again not saying it's perfect, but no place will ever be.
For all it's faults, at least you can post your conspiracies without the fear of anyone coming for you in the middle of the night and whisking you off to oblivion. Try the same thing in, oh I don't know Russia, or Cuba, an your would find out right away just how good your had in in the old USofA.
Why exactly is it such a crime to try to expand that same type of security to others that don't have it? Is it that you don't think they are worth the effort, of that they can't handle it? Maybe they are just not capable of living in a free society, that you believe is only reserved for white people?
Paved with gold? Who the hell said anything about the streets paved with gold. It's more like paved with lead, from all the years of leaded gasoline.
You must mean "no security" compared to some utopia. Compared to most of the world you live in Ozz. did you say you moved out of a ghetto? How did you do that? You know how we Cubans move out of our ghetto's, we have to swim to Miami. All of Cuba is one big ghetto, or a prison like in that movie, "Escape from NY". I wonder how you managed?
It's not like I live in Ozz either, this is a working class neighborhood, we work every day to pay the bills, not exactly a trust fund baby or anything.
You know it's not fair to claim that I'm a coward or anything because I don't enlist. For one I'm a bit old to fight, would only hold everyone back. We all do what we can, with the time we have, and with the talents were given. When I turned 18 I registered in the selective service like everyone else did. There was never a war that required me joining during my time.
Maybe finding a counter measure for those IED's would be a better idea, surly save more lives.
You asked me why I come here, and I was just thinking the same thing about you. Do you know who the Jarrar's are? You remember that TV program The Ozborn's?
well that who I think about when I think the Jarrar's. They are a globe trotting family. Khalids younger brother goes to collage in Canada, his older brother lives in San Francisco, Mom jets back and forth to the US every other week, Dad owns a big water purifying business, they import products from all over the world, including china, and the US.
These people aren't very likely to let you in their house unless you were to come in the servants entrance.
Why exactly are you here. Looking for a job? They pay their workers $2.00 a month, with not medical benefits, or vacation time.
If your looking for the big evil man, well you did find them.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Skiz,
You need to add this video to your list of conspiracies, just ignore the Jihadist claming to have done the job.
My my my look at these DULL, LISTLESS, *over-used*, NOT WELL-INTENTIONED cliches:
"It's not like I live in Ozz either, this is a working class neighborhood"
"I know the US is not perfect, no one said it was."
"I really think your tin foil hat might be......"
NOW. Look at the contempt, jealousy, envy, and prejudice reeking in these sentences:
"Do you know who the Jarrar's are? You remember that TV program The Ozborn's?"
=======Somebody, PLEASE, my smellinig salts! Is he kidding?? Sorry SKiZM, I guess the UFO satire WASN'T after all.
"just ignore the Jihadist claming to have done the job."
==========There is no such thing as a Jihadist. Pure hateful zionist INVENTION. Just like "islamist" is a pure hateful zionist INVENTION to demonize Arabs. Clever boy, I thought you knew.
But do you care? Forget it. Dumb question.
"They are a globe trotting family. Khalids younger brother goes to collage in Canada, his older brother lives in San Francisco, Mom jets back and forth to the US every other week, Dad owns a big water purifying business, they import products from all over the world, including china, and the US."
==========and the seven deadly sins just keep on playing! Well a few: Envy, Jealousy, Greed. Poor madtom just couldn't hold it in any longer. Cryin' buckets in his dilapitated SHACK.
"These people aren't very likely to let you in their house unless you were to come in the servants entrance."
=============These people? These people? Wow. smells like PREJUDICE SPIRT to me.
"Well Skiz that's a pretty good job of spaming Khalids blog. "
=============You meant YOUR link didn't you?
"Why exactly is it such a crime to try to expand that same type of security to others that don't have it?"
=============Oh I agree. The Native American Indians, while these days enjoying quite the luxuries that most poverty stricken people do not have, there should always be room made for more allowances of comfort and security. Ditto the African Americans! Not being sarcastic here.
Oh? were you talking about Iraq? AGAIN? Why? DO YOU REALLY GIVE A DAMN?
AFTER ALL.... YOU had to:
"swim to Miami."
AND
"work every day to pay the bills"
AND YOU ARE NOT
"exactly a trust fund baby."
"Maybe they[the Iraqis] are just not capable of living in a free society, that you believe is only reserved for white people?"
================wistfully imposing your racial insecurities, ill-begotten demonstrations of racisim on SKiZM is so very lacking in class, not to mention downright SLANDEROUS.
"But to blame the US for all that goes wrong in the world is just plain stupid. "
YUP! I agree.
I also agree that there are NOT ENOUGH STUPID PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
I also agree there are not enough 'CINDY SHEEHANS' in the world.
But please! Don't let me get in the way of YOU "not" being STOOOPID.
Well Rhiannon,
I really didn't see a questions in anything you typed, maybe your just posting random key strokes.
The one obvious hypocrisy is that I posted on link in answer to Skiz's major outburst, yet you call me the spammer. ?? I guess that sets the tone with which to read the rest of your so-called comment.
What was that video supposed to reveal? The one you linked for SKiZM? I know what your answer is going to be, but tell me anyway.
Can't wait.
BTW, I notice that jon is a contributor. Well that says it all about your blog.
The video shows that guy dressed in black making his martyrs statements, with the picture of the world trade center in flames in the background. If the CIA "did it" like Skiz claims, why are those 911 highjacker taking the credit?
Well you seem to know more about jon than me. As a matter of fact I know almost nothing about the guy, except what he's said on the blog. Maybe you could tell me what it says about the blog, I have no idea.
Nor do I really care. My blog accepts all points of view.
Most of his post have been about government overreaching, and abuse of US citizens, and invasion of private citizens rights by an all to powerful central government administration. He posts from a libertarian point of view. I myself am not Libertarian. I like big governments, and welfare, and lots of stuff that only the government can do.
"If the CIA "did it" like Skiz claims, why are those 911 highjacker taking the credit?"
=======
Is that all you have to say about the video?
okay, then I go back to my original thought:
[mt] "yet you call me the spammer. ?? "
Yes.
Well that was the part that was relevant to our original conversation. The video is an hour long, it's even interesting, but as far as I know only the first few minuets dealt with 911 directly. You have the OBL propaganda, the martyrs confession, little about how the terrorist get to exploit our resources and infrastructure. They did not even have to film the event, just steal it off the news and add it to their ranting in their video propaganda.
One of the interesting parts of the documentary actually come at the end, where they say that the young Arabs are turned off by the violence they see in some of that stuff, that guy without any legs starts crying when they make him watch a beheading. But to tell you the truth I think that was mostly bullshit.
If you ask me the one thing they forgot to mention is that the US will consume as much violence as they throw at us. Sometimes I think that the US government is censuring some of the most horrific videos so the public does not get addicted to it, to much. You know we are a blood thirsty bunch, the Romans were just wet nursed babies compared to us. The more Jihad porn they throw at us, the more we are likely to like it, and demand more. Before you know it we will be demanding that our government invade and pillage someplace just to get some resistance group to start filming their violence and posting it online.
Get your Jihad on!
Just a little warning to the wise.
We are consumers, we will consume your worst shit and sit back and demand more and more.
Well Skiz I am not sure, you know I could be wrong, but I think the "Owl Kayda" guy might have made that video before the morning of 911. That's a neat trick taking credit before the event "already attributed to them".
I could be wrong, you never know, stranger things have happened, and more importantly, people will believe anything they read or hear.
The fact that you had not heard of the group is inconsequential.
this is quite a thing
Whoa - British Airways to Contact Passengers After Traces of Radiation Found on Planes
You might want to expand a little bit Skiz. I can find nothing wrong in that statement.
Nice blog, interesting read.
Check out mine:
http://usterrorism.blogspot.com/
NO MAN
Two Missing Climbers Still Sought; Body of Third Identified
Hahahaha! Saddam won't be executed? I think you're gonna eat those words.
And what exactly is his death gonna do to improve Iraq or life in Iraq? The sectarian tension or the security situation?
I thought you were in favor of the nobel "resistance" fighting the US and it's "puppets". Now you want the security situation in Iraq to improve? You are against sectarian violence but it was Sunni Arabs who supported and abetted the initial insurgency.
Sr is right. I think you're from another planet.
In answer to your question: There are many things that need to improve among Iraqis before their country is livable, but it is impossible to imagine a better Iraq without Saddam gone...well, I know YOU can imagine it but that's another story.
One issue
that must be fiercely
debated and championed
by the peace movement is the
double standards that are dictating global politics.
We are made to believe
that in the present crisis, Iraq
is the most flagrant violator of
United Nations resolutions. We are
told that the presence of weapons of
mass destruction in Iraq constitutes a threat
to the security of the Middle East region, and if
exported, a threat to the world in general. The powerful
may want to whitewash the truth....but the world remembers.
We remember
countless UN resolutions
that bind or urge the international
community to allow for justice and peace
for the people of Palestine…that have gone unheeded.
And we remember
that although the centerpiece
of the argument for war against Iraq today,
namely UN Resolution 687, explicitly states the
objective of establishing a nuclear weapons-free zone
in the Middle East....
....there are those in the region with weapons of mass destruction...
who are not being asked to disarm.
[Hypocrisy…
The blatant bastard song
And dance of the neo-con elite.]
For as long
as the Middle East
peace process is denied
an honest broker, and for as
long as the Palestinian people
remain without a homeland
the urgency
of war or even
conflict resolution
anywhere else in the
world will be questioned.
Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Malaysian Deputy PM, 16 Feb 2003.
Rhiannon,
I don't remember the time that Israel twice invaded their neighbors or used poisoned gas to keep their citizens in line.
For as long
as the Middle East
peace process is denied
an honest broker, and for as
long as the Palestinian people
remain without a homeland
No homeland? What is Jordan?
Oh well, the Israelis and the Palestinians seem to be working things out without an intermediary. Why just a few months ago the Israelis handed over Gaza to the PA. Now the Palestinians can prove that they are an honest peace partner by preventing the region from becoming a harbor for terrorists, criminals, and chaos....oh wait a minute...Well, maybe if the Israelis just hand over more land...
Thanks for the welcome to Bizarro World, Rhiannon. I love those curtains.
""A columnist in the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) official television paper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida , has admitted that it was Arab leaders who were responsible for the flight of Arabs from the new State of Israel in 1948. The columnist, Mahmud Al-Habbash, recently wrote that in 1948, Palestinian Arabs left their homes willingly under the instruction of their own Arab leaders and their false promises of a prompt return. "
link
I guess the APU is starting to lose it's luster
Utter total bullshit from your zionist files, tommy boy. complete lies. Your source of fabricated history is junk - not just tainted. Absolute bullshit like your idiotic take on that video link you mentioned earlier..... Yeah, the spammer that you are. Only in this post you really outdid yourself with spamming. So ordinary of you. Well one can never really open a mind whose thought processes refuse to widen further than the inside of pencil lead.
The zionists are in full throttle with all sorts of their mad distortions of history and facts.
Jordan was never a homeland to Palestine as Jordan was Jordan - as Palestine was Palestine. Basically what the zionist peakfrean is trying to say is if Canada's land was stolen from Canadians, then gee whiz who cares?.... isn't the USA their homeland anyway? So the Canadians can just go stuff it and live in the USA.
An idiotic train of thought, but what can one expect from zionist robots.....
More putrid rantings from a zionist:
"israel' handed Gaza over to the Palestinians."
Not true. And I wasn't surprised. Israel had ill-intentions all the way, pretending to the world the "great sacrifice" is made. But it was all a lie, rest assured, typical israeli style.
'israel' never gave Gaza to the Palestinians, and "israel" never left Lebanon, either.
I don't click on links from zionist sources, even if they are Arab sources. Tell you why:
Zionism has nothing to do with being Jewish. That is just pure deception. However, zionism does have everything to do with using STUPID and GREEDY "muslims", "christians", and "jews" - or people who don't have religion - for their sick and twisted causes. Religion truly has nothing to do with it, but the zionists use religion most wickedly for their agendas, thereby confusing gullible folks like madtommy into believing these delusions.
On a richer note with a TRUTH (that seems to elude too many people) that will cause all little zionists to scream, shudder, shake, and twitch, because the truth to them is akin to pouring water on the wicked witch of the west:
Why don't the zionists go back to THEIR original homeland? What a splendid idea, don't you think? Eastern Europe. Considering the Palestinians have continually lived in Palestine for 7 centuries and the zionist robots have lived in "israel" - PALESTINE since only the 40s.......I'm sure they still have their European passports and broomsticks.
Just one problem:
Europe hates them worse than the Arabs.
"Jordan was never a homeland to Palestine as Jordan was Jordan - as Palestine was Palestine."
You can make it up all you want, but you'll never make it fly.
Canadians? homeland? are you drunk, Canadians are transplanted from all over the world, even the "natives" crossed the Pacific at some point.
All you racist are the same, you all sing the same tune. You draw artificial lines in the sand and this in mine, stay out. They never change. Even in the face of an admission from those that lived the facts. All you see is hate, as that's you'll even know.
Yeah, mad-tommy-zionist YOU are the hypocrit, and YOU are the racist.
You still don't get it cuz the lead-vision in your brain won't let you see past the slit. But maybe I'm being too generous. Maybe you just don't give a shit, cuz you are a zionist or zionist supporter.
Only zionists speak of idiotic ideas of Jordan being a homeland for Palestinians - only zionists speak this way. Jordan had already let go of land to create the West Bank for the Palestinians. "israel' stole that also.
Hate? YOU, mad tommy zion are the HATE. You. You know nothing of which you speak of. You know nothing of the true history of Palestine. You bring forth people who support zionism as evidence. It's clear what you are trying to do.
That you brought up Canadians the way you did makes my point oh so much richer! Spot on baby, spot on. The Canadians indeed lived in Canada no where near the time that the Palestinians lived in Palestine! And indeed, the Canadian bloodlines were nowhere as static or undiluted, or 100%, as the Palestinians. No people lived on the same land so long, so continuously as the Palestinians have. The Palestinian Christians and Muslims, (and the Hebrews of that time) have a more direct and clear line to God's prophets than do any other people in the world as they never left their homeland!
Forget you.
" static or undiluted, or 100%, as the Palestinians."
Pure race, how special for you. The words of a racist if ever I have seen them. We have a club for you here in the US. KKK, give them a call, they are looking for people that think like you.
It's of course utter nonsense to think of races when talking about humans anyway. There is only one race of humans currently living on planet earth. People just come in different "colors" to borrow a word. They have different faces, hair and skin or other distinguishing factors, but we are all the same race. Only hate filled racist think otherwise
Not to mention that the Hebrews as you label them have lived on the very same land from the time of Moses...
What you object too is the modern state of Israel. But again more hierocracy, as the state of Israel is no younger than your Palestine of Iraq, or any of the modern Arab states, more or less.
Maybe it's the democracy you hate. Why not the Jordanian throne. It's artificial, was imposed by the west, why not hate them?
""israel" today, in no way represents biblical Israel -"
I was careful not to say that. But you could not help yourself reading that into what I did say...
however fleeting it was -
Keep going...
" 'israel' is not a demoractic nation. Never was."
No! please provide a definition of democracy?
and the question you ask is so incredibly lame that it's not worth an answer."
You mean you won't answer, you know the consequence.
"Palestinians lived on Holy Land for 7 centuries"
Really? well it was Christian land before it was Islamic. Maybe we want it back. Maybe you stole the land from us, maybe it's you that drove the Christians from their homes. Or are you going to tell me that there were no Christians either. Just a Zionist lie designed to steal fro you.
Your rantings are becoming increasingly delusional.
I am sure Syria is a model of democracy and that people there have the rights of self determination, in your mind.
But to the rest of the world your barking makes as much sense as the sounds a dog makes. not sure what good it does to continue this debate. You wont post your definition of democracy, you won't answer questions about Jordan, and it's political structure, or it's origins. You want to make believe that Muslims have lived on the land from before Islam came to the world, and you seem to think that Palestine is a country and not a geographic designation.
There is a lot of space there, not sure I can see that far, or for that matter that anyone could.
No, you can't see at all. I already told you and I'll gladly repeat:
There's no sense in educating an Ant. You know nothing about Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, or Palestine. You know nothing of what you speak of. You're posts say as much, hence the tiny pinpoint of jello you think is "knowledge".
It's not my fault you don't want to acknowledge that Palestine existed for thousands of years. There's a wealth of info at your fingertips, but what is the good of it? For someone like you?
I might as well tell you that Mercury is the closest planet to the sun and you would come back with something really idiotic like:
"no, Pluto is the closest planet to the sun, but you like to bark like a dog as you think the world understands, oh well......."
See? I can produce satire better than you, and still you would be scratching your skull.
One more thing. I like to stick to the point. You bring up Jordan and now Syria, which is quite whimsical, even theatrical on your part, and I say: NO SALE! These two countries have nothing to do with Palestine stolen from zionist "israel", in the 40s.
You put words in my mouth about Palestinian Christians, and then you erratically moved onto the Christians living in 'israel'. No point was made, and 'israel' is still not a democracy, and there are a slew of Israeli scholars and historians to attest to this bright bold fact.
I will post this, but I know you won't get it. Do I care? Ask me if I care. No, hell no. If I cared about ALL people getting my point, I wouldn't bother posting - too much work. But if a few get my point, that's all that matters:
Bethlehem- December 20, 2006—
Most Americans believe Bethlehem
is an Israeli town inhabited by a mixture
of Jews and Muslims,
a pre-Christmas survey of
US perceptions of the town has shown.
Only 15 per cent of Americans
realise that it is a Palestinian city
with a mixed Christian-Muslim community,
lying in the occupied West Bank.
The nationwide survey,
carried out by top US political
pollsters Zogby International,
canvassed 15000 American respondents.
The poll was commissioned
by the campaign organization
Open Bethlehem to coincide with a survey
carried out in Bethlehem itself –
canvassing 1000 respondents from
the three urban centres of Bethlehem,
where the population splits almost
equally between Muslims and Christians.
The surveys have put the spotlight
on the plight of the town,
which has been fast losing
its indigenous Christian population
since the construction of the Israeli wall
plunged Bethlehem into economic crisis.
Bethlehem- December 20, 2006—
The two surveys show
that American perceptions of the town
are wildly at odds with the perceptions
of those who live there.
While the Christians of Bethlehem
overwhelmingly (78%)
blame the exodus of Christians
from the town on Israel’s blockade,
Americans are more likely (45.9%)
to blame it on Islamic politics
and are reluctant (7.4%) to blame Israel.
And while four out of ten Americans
believe that the wall exists
for Israel’s security,
more than nine out of ten Bethlehemites
believe it is part of a plan
by Israel to confiscate Palestinian land.
The Zogby survey shows strong support
for the town in the US,
where 65.5% of the population
want the UN to list it as a world heritage site.
Americans are also strongly in favour (80.6%)
of Bethlehem retaining a strong Christian presence.
Americans are also ambivalent
about the Israeli wall,
with 31.5% in favour of it,
with another 31.6% opposed.
But more than two-thirds of
Americans believe Bethlehem is
unsafe to visit, while 80% of Bethlehemites
consider their town safe for visitors.
While the US survey showed
that Americans are skeptical about
Muslims and Christians living contentedly
alongside each other –
only 17% thought they lived together
in peaceful coexistence –
the Palestinian survey showed
they do: around 90% of Christians
said they had Muslim friends, and vice-versa.
The Israeli government could
well be shaken by the discovery
that Americans’ tolerance of the wall
would be strained by the discovery
that it separates communities and families,
cuts Bethlehem off from Jerusalem,
and requires the seizure of privately-owned land.
US Christians, meanwhile, are likely
to be shocked by the discovery that
seven out of ten Christians in Bethlehem
believe Israel treats the town’s Christian heritage
with brutality or indifference.
The Bethlehem poll, which was carried out
by the Palestinian Centre for research
and Cultural Dialogue, shows
on the other hand that
more than two-thirds (73.3%) of
Bethlehem’s Christians believe that
the Palestinian Authority treats
Christian heritage with respect.
That result will surprise some
who believe that the election of Hamas
has strained Christian-Muslim relations in the town.
Leila Sansour,
Open Bethlehem’s Chief Executive, said:
“Our US poll shows overwhelming
support for Bethlehem’s Christian heritage,
yet our survey of Bethlehem’s own citizens
shows the city cannot retain this heritage
and its Christian community while the wall remains.
The choice is stark.
Either the wall stays and
Bethlehem ceases to be a Christian town.
Or Bethlehem retains its Christian population –
in which case the wall has to come down.
The international community
needs to wake up to what
is happening and choose.”
"It's not my fault you don't want to acknowledge that Palestine existed for thousands of years."
That is not true. Where we differ is in what the definition of Palestine is? you seem to think that "Palestine" only counts for the Arabs peoples that lived there. But the truth is that many peoples lived in Palestine. Some of those people chose to create a new state on the land that of their ancestors. That state is Israel, it's modern an it's democratic. So you reject it as illegitimate. Why? you just won't say.
"One more thing. I like to stick to the point. You bring up Jordan and now Syria, which is quite whimsical, even theatrical on your part, and I say: NO SALE! These two countries have nothing to do with Palestine stolen from zionist "israel", in the 40s."
You want to reject history, or a selective history and just blame Israel for the plight of the "Palestinians". Unlike I who wants to look at the whole picture. I look for solutions, you just want to press your agenda. That's why I bring it up. How hypocritical of you to complain about any abuse of anyone in Israel when those very same people are abuse to a higher degree all around.
Besides the Palestinian territories were in fact administered from Jordan and Syria, and Egypt before the partition. There was no Palestinian state, and there still is no such state. The Arab countries that want to use the territories to build a battle fields to destroy Israel are the problem. Take that away and a solution could have been found 40 years ago.
'israel' is still not a democracy, and there are a slew of Israeli scholars and historians to attest to this bright bold fact.
Lies of course, Israel is a democracy under any definition that I have ever read. I have asked you amny time to provide a definition of your choise to use as a base for comparison, ??
"Only 15 per cent of Americans
realise that it is a Palestinian city
with a mixed Christian-Muslim community,
lying in the occupied West Bank."
The important question here is why is it occupied. And are you trying to insinuate that the only Christians live in Bethlehem?
"to blame it on Islamic politics"
Like if Israeli policies were coming in a vacuum, right? I don't like the wall, I would not agree to a wall if it was in my backyard, but for Israelis it's a wall, or all out war.
"they lived together
in peaceful coexistence –
the Palestinian survey showed
they do:"
Peaceful coexistence that's a joke, it's uses the ME as a base line...try making the same comparison using someplace like Miami as your baseline, and you'll find what you call coexistence looking more lie ethnic tension.
""israel" is not a democracy, ladies and gentlemen. It never was, and if it don't change its evil ways, it never will be a democracy. "
After barking for like 500 words all you said again was this. But you saying don't mean it's true. You have to present some sort of evidence to back up these claims. A definition of democracy that you agree too would be a start. But your refusing. Maybe you cant find one that agrees with your delusional preconceptions. Well I will take one even from you. Come on you cant just say stupid things and expect people to just accept what you say. You have to back it up with something.
"I'm actually having fun watching you TRY VERY HARD to be "clever"."
It's actually not very hard while talking to you.
Even if we accept that Israel is "APARTHEID" for the sake of this argument, It's not in a vacuum. It's part of it's defense against an ongoing aggression on the part of the Arabs. Of course we have to be careful with the big words. They have exact meanings, and in the Israeli democracy they are up for interpretation of the courts, witch might rule on the matter. Unlike the truly apartheid Arab states which have not independent courts, or constitutions, or laws, just dictates from god.
Lets talk about the real racist states in the region, like Saudi Arabia. How many Israelis are allowed to immigrate there? Well? I know many Arabs are allowed to emigrate to Israel, and they can become citizens... I know that's way too much for you and your just going to howl at the moon.
Well it's been a full moon, and still, last I heard, and what I have always known is that "israel" was found on the bones and flesh of Palestinian men, women, and children regardless of their faith........but you being a bigot, with just a few nubs of brain matter, yes you being the racist here.....do not get it...... "israel" was founded on the misery and mass murders of Palestinian people.
Not a lot of nobility and courage there. None at all.
"israel" never changed. It was founded on false premises and the zionists knew this:
***That there were no Palestinians, but there were, almost a million Palestinians living in Palestine at the time of the zionist invasions...
***That Jesus is a Jew, therefore to manipulate the Christians in north america into believing that the "children of Israel" should get their israel back. Total lie, and further twistings of Holy Scripture......Jesus was never a Jew, nor was Moses, Abraham or David........
***That Palestine was sparse land. False again. Palestine was a thriving nation of towns, cities and villages, of People whose religions consisted of Islam, Christianity, and the Hebrew faith. They were getting along fine for hundreds of years until the zionists invaded the land.
"israel" was founded on hatred and greed and will live by its hatred and greed and will die by its haterd and greed. Whatever happens to "israel" it will be the fault of itself. No one will be to blame for its downfall but this bastard and most undemocratic "country".
"That Jesus is a Jew"
Talk about bigotry and racism. Why would you insult all the Christians in the world like that? If Jesus was not a Jew, them he could not be Christ, the son of God of the new testament.
Now you might not subscribe to such thing, and that's fine, but why insult all those that do. For your politics?
Talk about sick bastards
Whooo Hooo, Khalid! Of course! You have a sicky "Christian" zionist on your blogs! Tommy the zionist is actually Tommy the "christian" zionist DELUDED!!!
I knew it!
So whose your daddy, baby? The scum likes of John Hagee, Pat Robertson?
Heh, heh, heh.......it's just too funny! Please khalid, if you are reading this blog, keep in mind that your mad tommy is a freako, blood sweat and tears, southern bible thumping PIGHEAD, "chreees- chen zionist!
Yeah, BABY, you want that wall in the Westbank! You want those settlements to keep on being built and thriving in the West Bank and Golan Heights. You want those Arab children - who cares if they are Christians or Muslims - RIGHT? - you want those children to be slaughtered by your righteous "chosen", "children of israel" IOF! You want that third temple to be built over the Al Aqsa mosque, don't you my little "christian zionist freakoid"?
"and oddly even some of these people believe the outrageous nonsense that Jesus was a Jew."
rhiannon, you deductive ability never ceases to astound me...Please just because I am trying to explain something to you does not mean that I subscribe to the ideas myself. If you must know, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, look it up. But in my adult life I follow no religious sect at all. I'm as secular as they come. Most of the people that know me would describe me as an atheist. though I reject that term as being a religious designation, so it cant apply to me. You might describe me as a deist at best.
The fact that Jesus was a Jew comes from the fact that to be Christ, he had to come from the house of David, and that he's described in the bible as the young rabbi, but that could be disputed, as some translate it as "teacher". But he must be of the house of David, and Marry his mother fulfills that requirement. If not he could not fulfill the old testament prophesies that foretold his coming.
You are not going to argue that the house of David was not Jewish, right?
You are the only one here confusing religion with politics, and you should apologies to all of Khlida believing readers.
This is supposed to be a clean family blog.
Then we can return to the subject which you are doing your best to avoid.
Here is an interpretation of the Quran which I hope is not to controversial, but that I think is germane to the subject we have been debating.
Here is a direct translation of the above Verse 17: 1:
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for Journey by night, from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did Bless, - in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: For He is the One Who Heareth and Seeth (all things).
Translator Yusuf Ali's MISLEADING -- SELF-CONTRADICTORY Commentary Number 2168 reads:
The Farthest Mosque must refer to the site of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem on the hill of Moriah, at or near which stands the Dome of the Rock, called also the Mosque of Hadhrat 'Umar. This and the Mosque known as the Farthest Mosque (Masjid-ul-Aqsa) were completed by the Amir 'Abd-ul-Malik in A.H. 68. Farthest, because it was the place of worship farthest west which was known to the Arabs in the time of the holy Prophet: it was a sacred place to both Jews and Christians, but the Christians then had the upper hand, as it was included in the Byzantine (Roman) Empire, which maintained a Patriarch at Jerusalem. The chief dates in connection with the Temple are: it was finished by Solomon about B.C. 1004; destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar about 586 B.C.; rebuilt under Ezra and Nehemiah about 515 B.C.; turned into a heathen idol-temple by one of Alexander's successors, Antiochus Epiphanes, 167 B.C.; restored by Herod, B.C. 17 to A.D. 29; and completely razed to the ground by the Emperor Titus in A.D. 70. These ups and downs are among the greater Signs in religious history.
I don't provide a link because I could not find the source I was looking for, only this one that tries to argue that Al-Aqsa mosque could not be the farthest mosque of the quranic verse with is not what we are arguing here.
The other source I had made it clear that the correct translation was not mosque but place of worship, or holly ground, so the controversy over the mosque not being built at the time of the journey was mute.
I already told you, but you don't read well. You don't read at all. David, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Noah, none of them were jews. You brought up David, as if I didn't. I did. I am way ahead of you. I told you....David was not a Jew.
"Please understand that if one joins a completely Other faith, as messianic "Jews" have done by accepting Jesus as their personal savior and messiah, they are no longer Jews. They are Christians. Those messianic "Jews" want to see themselves as still Jewish even though they now believe exactly the same as the members of the Southern Baptist, Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, and Assemblies of God churches. It is these churches and denominations that fund and establish and maintain messianic "synagogues.
Another question is, If the messianics claim to remain Jews, what do these messianics say about their supposedly "fellow" Jews? Messianic "Jews" will say that the real Jews are going to Hell because they don't accept Jesus. This means that the messianic "Jews" condemn to hell the very group of which they still claim to be a part. Does this make sense? That means that as soon as they become a Christian, as soon as they accept Jesus as their personal savior, son of god, and messiah, they then condemn what is supposedly their own group. But no one else who claims to be Jewish, no one else who does, indeed, remain a Jew, condemns his or her own Jews to Hell for their lack of belief in Jesus. Many churches do, indeed, condemn the Jews to Hell for not accepting Jesus. Talk about trying to have one's cake and eat it too!? To the Jewish community, it is ridiculous to claim one can be a Jew and a Christian at the same time, and knowledgeable Jews are not fooled."
Rabbi Stuart Federow 2003
How was Jesus a Jew when Jews never believed in Jesus? How?
Look at what you say:
"If Jesus was not a Jew, them he could not be Christ, the son of God of the new testament."
Have you any idea how ignorant that is? Jews don't believe in Christ, certainly that He was not the Son of God. How is Jesus a Jew if everything about Jesus is negated in their faith?
Go on, "christian" zionist, let's see you spin more webs of deceit.
Can't wait.
"How was Jesus a Jew when Jews never believed in Jesus? How? "
It's totally irrelevant to Christians if Jews accept Jesus as Christ, nor does it change the fact that Jesus was a Jew, which is a prerequisite of Christianity?
Let me try and explain:
Jew are still waiting for the messiah to show up. It'll be any day now I'm sure.
Christians believe that Jesus was the Jew prophesied to be the messiah. Most of toady's Christians are followers of Paul, who said that Christ was for everyone, not just Jews. According to Paul gentiles could become Christian, and there was no need to follow "the Law" things like circumcision and all the rest. This made Christianity available to the masses.
I am not 100% sure what "messianic "Jews"" are, but they could be, like most of the other apostles, people that believe that Jesus is the messiah, but that this does not mean a new religion, just a new sect of Judaism. Not available to the masses without a conversion to Judaism first, and adherence to "the law" like every other Jew.
I hope this helps, if not seek professional help on the subject. I am sure your local Church will be happy to help for free. Or write the Jehovah's Witness, they will surly want to explain it all in great detail.
Talk about people that don't read well....can we get back to the regularly scheduled debate.
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