Tell Me a Secret: Lebanon..

Monday, July 17, 2006

Lebanon..

*** *update* the comments section is active, I post links to sellected news, pictures and articles there, and there are ongoing debates that you are welcome to participate in.***
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I keep asking myself the following few questions:

Why doesn't Israel occupy the whole Arab homeland? If I were in the Israeli government I would have long time ago; can't they see that they control Arab leaders so well, that the only thing the Arab governments will ever do is condemn? And then fight two weeks among them if they should have an emergency meeting for Arab leaders or not, and then when they finally meet, they will decide that they, condemn what happened, and then will decide that they have to go to the UN and security council, sdo they run crying for them: helppppp....Israel just occupied all of our countries, and killed over 2 millions civilians, and bombed every power plant and bridge in the entire Arab homeland, and used banned weapons against civilians more than once...Help pleaseee! We are facing a humanitarian disaster! We are dying! We lost our countries!

and the UN would go: ehhh....Come next next week, we are playing pool now.
and then Arabs leaders will of course agree, and go and get bombed for a week, and the rest of them ( the ones that weren't killed during that week) will come again crying for the UN to have them stop: please UN, they killed over 5 million now, and they are raping every woman they find, and they already gave contracts for their companies to invest in the oil, and they already gave contracts to their companies to rebuild what their military destroyed!
and the UN would meet, and then will announce that they understand Israel's right to defend itself. But they ask Israel to show more self restrain.
and when they decide to ask for siece fire, the government of the USA, Bush's administration ( Bush's government new name is The Filthy Devil, oh did that name hurt the feelings of some people? Good!) will use the Vito to make sure that doesn't happen.

so I really think Israelis are stupid, they really should invade all the Arab countries.

The other question I am asking myself is, what the hell is the Lebanese army doing? Lebanese military sites have been bombed many times now and many members of the army were killed already, and the Israelis have been attacking the Lebanese lands for the last 6 days, what are they exactly waiting for?

Third question:

Hezbollah has 10-15 thousands missiles according to reports, some of them can reach a range of 200 km, which means they can reach Tal Abeeb (which you know as Tel Aviv) and Quds. Israel have crossed every red line, and executed over 1000 air strike and attacked the buildings of Hezbollah and the southern suburbs of Beirut, where most of Hezbollah supporters are, and announced and an open war on TV, what are they waiting for? Why aren't they sending a message to Israel that they "really" shouldn't mess with Lebanon? I mean the two sides are talking missiles now, and the Israeli side is doing all efforts to send the message to all Lebanon, all the Area, all the world, that they shouldn't mess with Israel. What is Hizbollah saving the rest of his missiles for exactly?

One of my Friends, Ramzi Kysia, wrote this article:

The Distance from Guernica to Lebanon By Ramzi Kysia

As I write this, I can hear Israeli warplanes flying over head, breaking the sound barrier and rattling all of our windows. In the distance there are explosions. I don’t know where the bombs are dropping, but it’snot close to me. I can’t hear the screaming of thesurvivors from where I sit.

Hezbollah and Hamas may possess the ability to kill dozens of Israeli civilians and terrorize countless others, but they are not an existential threat to Israel. As events on the ground have unmistakably demonstrated over this past month, today it is Israel that is a clear and present danger to the further existence of the Lebanese and Palestinian peoples. Adanger, if not to their very lives - then certainly tothe continuation of their nations.

This is the third, catastrophic attack I’ve livedthrough. I was in New York City on September 11. I wasin Baghdad during “Shock and Awe.” It’s not somethingyou ever get used to. That so much hatred can live in the world, so much indifference to human suffering--living under that hatred and indifference is almost ashard as living under the bombs.

As I write this, over two hundred Lebanese have beenkilled. Almost all of them were civilians.

I think of Guernica.

On April 26, 1937, during the Spanish Civil War, the German Air Force, siding with fascist dictator Francisco Franco, began a bombing campaign against thecity of Guernica. Some 1,600 people were killed, and the city was reduced to rubble. Guernica is remembered as the first time air power was used against acivilian population with the intent of causing complete destruction.

When it happened, Guernica shocked the world. Today,we do not shock so easily. Lebanon is being sacrificed without so much as a casual protest.

Israel has bombed power plants, roads, and bridges all across Lebanon. Israel has bombed gas stations andfuel depots, grain silos, lighthouses, the seaports in Beirut, Tripoli, Jounieh and Tyre. Beirut’s airport isin flames. Beirut’s Shi’a suburbs have been almost completely demolished. Fire fighters are pleading forhelp, because they do not have enough water to put out the blazes. (1)

I think of Guernica.

Israel has ordered all of the people living in Southern Lebanon to flee their homes and villages. AviDichter, Israel’s Minister of Internal Security, told us that “tens of thousands of Lebanese who will flee towards the north will create the right pressure on Hezbollah." (2)

Two nights ago, eighteen people in the South were burned alive when Israel bombed their fleeing convoy with incendiary shells. Eleven of the dead were children under the age of twelve. Mahmoud Ghannam, the father of two of the killed children, broke down when he saw their bodies. He struck himself in the head repeatedly and cried, "my God, my God. I can't make out the faces of my children. They are burnt black...Which ones are my children?" (3)

A copy of Pablo Picasso’s famous painting of the annihilation of Guernica was hung outside the chambers of the UN Security Council, as a reminder of why the United Nations was created, and of what the Security Council is supposed to prevent. In 2003, the United States ordered the eleven foot painting covered, so as not to even subtly embarrass American diplomats pressing for a war against Iraq. (4)

We are supposed to forget what modern warfare means.

Living in Lebanon today, I cannot forget. I remember Guernica.

Today, Lebanon is being forced toward total ruin. If Israel’s intent is just to destroy Hezbollah, then why are they bombing Christian and Sunni neighborhoods and
Hezbollah’s headquarters in Beirut, making sure to first bomb power plants, bridges and roads throughout the entire country? Israel’s clear intent is to trash this entire country, smash everything that makes Lebanon a modern nation, and demolish all of the work the Lebanese have done over the last fifteen years to rebuild their country.

As Lebanon is ravaged, U.S. President George Bush loudly and proudly asserts Israel’s right to“self-defense.” (5)

As Lebanon is ravaged, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rica announces that Israel should continue bombing to “reduce the threat” from Hezbollah. (6)

Do Arabs possess the right to defend themselves from Israel?

As Lebanon is laid to waste, Israeli Prime MinisterEhud Olmert has secured himself new found adulation within Israel. Everyone apparently loves a killer. (7)

As Lebanon is destroyed, Olmert has announced that he will refuse to meet with a UN delegation attempting to secure a cease-fire (8), George Bush has publicly refused to call for a cease-fire (9), and the United States is blocking other nations on the Security Council from calling for a cease-fire (10).

On "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," Condoleezza Rice not only defended Israel’s actions in Lebanon andU.S. policy in Iraq, but said “[Mid-East] hostilities were not very well contained, as we found out on Sept.11, and so the notion that somehow policies thatfinally confront extremism are actually causing extremism, I find grotesque.”

Grotesque. As if Lebanon or Iraq--or even Hamas or Hezbollah--had anything whatsoever to do withSeptember 11.

I remember what is grotesque. I remember Guernica.

When Westerners speak of “smashing the infra structure of terror,” it is understandable that they mean all of the Arab peoples themselves. Arabs are “the infrastructure of terror.”

Speaking against a cease-fire, Rice added, “We have togo at the root cause. … It's fine to have a cessationof violence. …But unless we go to the fundamentals here, we're going to continue to have these spikes of violence in the Middle East as we have had for thepast 30 years.” (11)

According to the Washington Post, going to these fundamentals means that Israel and the United Statesare going to prevent any cease-fire and continue bombing Lebanon for “several weeks” in order to establish their version of peace in the region. (12)

Indeed. I remember Guernica. I understand the peace of the jackboot and whip.

Dare any American or Israeli ever again ask, “Why do they hate us?”

The clear conviction being spoken by all of thepoliticians in Israel and America is that theirabsolute security is absolutely dependent on the complete insecurity of Arabs everywhere. And the clear lesson being taught to generations of children growing up in the rubble of what once was the shining jewel ofthe Middle East is simply this: their security canonly be dependent on the future insecurity of America and Israel.

Former U.S. Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich alsotook the opportunity to strongly defend this point ofview. In an interview on Saturday, Gingrich said that Israel and America must be forceful because, “we need to have the militancy that says 'We're not going tolose a city.’”

So, apparently, Lebanon is going to lose several.

Gingrich belittled the idea of negotiations or apossible ceasefire by saying, “this idea that we have this one-sided war where the other team gets to plan how to kill us and we get to talk, is nuts.” (13)

A hundred years ago President Teddy Roosevelt famously told Americans to “talk softly and carry a big stick.” Today the spiritual, if not political, heirs to Generalissimo Franco are riding high in Tel Aviv and Washington D.C., and they’ve gone one better than Roosevelt
Today, they don’t talk at all.

-----

Ramzi Kysia is an Arab-American essayist and peace activist. He spent a year in Iraq with Voices in theWilderness, the Chicago-based predecessor to Voicesfor Creative Nonviolence (http://www.vcnv.org/). He iscurrently living in Lebanon, and working on a book about his experiences.


1. "Israelis intensify bombardment of Lebanon'scivilian infrastructure," Daily Star (17 July 2006)

2. "Lebanese villagers ordered out," AFP (17 July2006)

3. "Jets 'incinerate' fleeing family," AFP (16 July2006)

4. "The Lessons of Guernica," Toronto Star (9 February2003)

5. "Mideast flare-up follows Bush to Russia," AP (14July 2006)

6. "Rice Says Israel May Need to Prolong Offensive,"New York Times (16 July 2006)

7. "War Gives Israeli Leader Political Capital," NewYork Times (16 July 2006)

8. "Lebanon bows on border demand," The Australian (17July 2006)

9. "Bush won't pressure Israel for cease-fire," AP (14July 2006)

10. "Lebanon: U.S. blocking call for cease-fire," AP(15 July 2006)

11. "Rice Defends Israel, Calls Criticisms of BushPolicy 'Grotesque'," ABC News Online (16 July 2006)

12. "Strikes Are Called Part of Broad Strategy,"Washington Post (16 July 2006)

13. "Let's face it, it's WWIII, Gingrich says,"Seattle Times (16 July 2006)

89 Comments:

Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Sorry for the long time without posting..
i have been busy, doing many things,
studying and stuff.
i went to do 3omrah, i small form of haj too, which was beyond amazing.
I spend a lot of time reading the news and reading lebanese blogs.
i will try to keep up with the coming comments.

7/18/2006 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Julie said...

Khalid,
I'm glad you posted this. This is a very touching post. Julie

7/18/2006 12:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi khalid / thank you for posting this
altho / it makes me feel sick to read it

i'm glad you are back writing


i worry when you are not blogging

take care

~jenn

7/18/2006 06:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its great to see a post from you again, especially on the issue of Lebanon...

7asbiallah wa ni3mal wakeel..

Samee7a

7/18/2006 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Mimi said...

I, too, worry when you don't post, Khalid. This post is excellent. I like Mr. Kysia's comparison of Lebanon and Guernica, Spain, especially since Guernica is a place close to my heart. I sincerely believe that the U.S. Government advised Israel to take the action it has, and is opposing a ceasefire in order to give Israel more time to pound Lebanon. Mr. Kysia is right that no one wants to talk. This is a repeat of the action Bush and his bunch took in 2003 against Iraq -- just hit anyone living there with "shock and awe," kill, kill, kill in the name of security! There is no such thing as security. It is an abstraction.

Bush must now support Israel because of his own maniacal prior actions. Unfortunately, nothing can justify either Bush or Olmert's extreme actions.

I heard someone say on TV this week that "The War on Terror" is an abstraction. Therefore, how can there be a winner?" What a fantastic statement. People are dying because of abstractions.

You asked the one question that isn't being asked but should be asked, ". . . what the hell is the Lebanese army doing?"

Thank you for this post.
Mimi in Missouri

7/18/2006 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Brianna Flynn said...

You know this makes me want to scream and bash my head in frustration. =p

Again, I just have to stop watching the news...things are beyond twisted here. I still can't see an /invasion/ in response to...what, seven military casualties and two kidnappings? I feel for the families of the killed men, and it's tragic and frustrating - but it certainly is /not/ a reason to bomb an airport out of existance and cause my friend to have to evacuate with his family over land by bribing Syrian customs.

And the US is supporting this? Shame on us.

7/18/2006 09:43:00 PM  
Anonymous pietro said...

The death and destruction of so many isnothing more than a raitngs bonanza for the western media and catlyst for the fear mongerersin Washington. The middle east is becoming a place where the governments are losing touch with the people. This will only create more problems for the US. How do you ask Palestinians to strive for demcracy and then totally abandon the government they've elected? American democracy. Iraq will be facing the same future.

7/19/2006 04:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok Khalid, because you asked, I'm posting my email to you here.

I'm sticking with "anonymous" as it is unedited and this is the net and yes, my sister is shamed by her past, and I've no reason to publicly humiliate her further:

It seems to me that the Lebanese army, by NOT joining
the fray is literally protecting the entire world from
a larger more horrific war. The restraint and sanity
demonstrated by Lebanon is an oasis of reason admidst
insanity.

If Lebanon takes Israel's bait and enlarges the war,
surely Syria and perhaps Iran will join in....and Bush
will back Israel, and perhaps decide to play with his
nukes. Or maybe Israel will decide that a bigger war
demands a nuclear response. I think the entire world
is well aware that we are not dealing with sane people
here.

If the US had any standing left in the world, their
recent comments on Israel betray their hypocrisy so
baldly that even diplomats cannot turn aside the
shocking insult to all people of good reason and free
will.

I awoke this morning to news of protest in front of
the Israel embassy in the US. There is much to
protest.

And I'm reminded of a time my sister attacked me in
the hallway. I'd put clean laundry on her bed at my
mother's request. Evidently it reminded her of
childhood room cleanings when I put her things on her
bed. She started slapping me about the face. And I was
stunned. I did not strike her back. I think she wishes
I had. I think the incident haunts her and humiliates
her.

Israel is creating a past that will haunt it's future
and will humiliate it's citizens.

They betray their lies with each attack and they lose
their ability to gain support. They are destroying
themselves for all that they are attacking Lebanon.

But if Lebanon strikes back, they become a partner in
war and will be stained with the blood they spill.
They would risk people forgetting Israel's aggression.
But the longer they hold back the more exposed Israel
is.

Winning wars is not about killing the most people or
inflicting the most damage.
As you may have noticed, the US hasn't exactly won a
stunning victory in Iraq.

7/19/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

July

I am glad to see you around!:)

Jenn

I am afraid that everything in the news these days makes one sick! i am sorry to add more to it but you know i have to!:)

Samee7a

wik shoo 7ilo ashoofik hon! `9alli morri! 2ah wallahi, 7asbona allah o ni3ma il wakeel, alla yon9orhom o yi7meehom inshalla, 2oli ameen!

Mimi

Bush's role in all this is almost more shameful than Olmert's. and when i see Condi talking with her ugly buldog face about Isreal's right to defend itself, all the terrorist genes in my Arab cromosome suddenly wake up and i start thinking of how much i want to throw her from the roof of a building.
and you are right, the war on terror is an abstract and is made to be very flexable to be defined and redefined whenever wanted the way desired. there isnt even a definition for the word terrorism.
I will try to not make you worry and post more often!
:))

miss Flynn;)

shame on the government, not on "you" :)
I wish it was only an airport! power plants, countless bridges, civillians homes and neighbours...and the story goes on....

Pietro!

whats up body?
you are right, the governments totally lost contact with the people, and have you heard what Amr Mousa said the other day about the death of the peace process? and he called for ta3bi2a 3ammah of il sho3oob cause he knows that governments are just useless and too monba6i7een to do anthing.
what a shame!

Ano.

hahahah! how much would she pay me then to buy my silence?;)
look S., i understand what you are saying, but at the same time, shouldnt there be some red line somewhere that when crossed the army should interfere? an orange line? a light pink line? any line at all? the numbers of killed civilians will reach hundreds and the injured already are in hundreds, and tenths of lebanese troops that their bases were bombed were killed too!!!! Isael actually bombed Lebanese military sites more than one time and killed many of the army members, where exactly is the line?
i dont know if you are familiar with the expression but in arabic we say its a finger biting contest, you know whats that? its like when you let someone bites your finger and you bite his finger at the same time, and whoever screams of pain first loses, and this is what is happeneing here, the Isrealis arent saaving any biting power here!! should the lebanese just stop biting and start screaming? (not like that would make Isreal declear the end of the game).
It's a sad reality that as i see it, the only way now to walk out of this is to creat more pressure on Isreal goverments, using the internationl community ( like there is such a thing ) and Katyousha missiles too, that are supposed to make Isrealis pressure their goverment to stop biting like a mad dog and start negotiating exchanging prisoners (supposadly in Isreal the government actually cares about what the poppulation think and want).
I am sorry, but nonviolence resistance card is off the table now, it just isnt working, and its just being used as a trick to give Isreal the chance to kill more people and destroy more of lebanon's and palestine's buildings and infrastructure.

thanks for posting your email here S. thats very nice of you, your contribution is always highly valued! :))
and you'd better believe that i will remember you promised to make me all these yummy things;)
me*

7/19/2006 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

If you are American, if you have an American citizenship, you can try to help:

http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/07/people-in-states-people-with-us.html

Let's see if this can work:)

7/19/2006 07:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Danny Howard said...

Okay .... I get it, its bad that Israel is killing people in Lebanon. But it is doing so to defend its own civilian population from rocket attacks, that are launched from within the civilian areas of Lebanon.

So, what should Israel be doing differently to protect itself from missile attacks from its neighboring country? Just ignore the attacks since they only threaten Israel's population and not its existence? Should they ask the nice Muslim government could they please enforce their own laws and stop allowing attacks on their country? Seriously, the situation is bad, yes. But we need a solution to work with, right?

I think as long as the Arab people have Arab governments that permit attacks on foreign countries by non-state actors, then it is the responsibility of the Arab people when death rains down upon their civilian populations from the skies.

Israeli civilians do not fire rockets into Lebanon.
American civilians do not fire rockets into Lebanon.
If a state can not control aggression from its borders, it is a failed state. Lebanon is failing to protect its own civilians, by allowing attacks on Israeli civilians, provoking a response from Israel.

I pray for all the people in the middle east, but there never seems to be a point. And while I don't want to blame anyone, I feel that, it is the Arabs who keep failing to come along into the modern world and build effective governments. :(

-danny

7/19/2006 04:39:00 PM  
Blogger Aladdin said...

I believe many Americans have long been 'brainwashed' by pro-Israeli propaganda. It's not surprising to find supportive comments of the Israeli brutality in Lebanon in the name of 'self-defence'!!

One question for those who support the killing of 'Lebanese' civilians, when will you stop backing Israel?

7/19/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Awwwwwww Khalid, if you take non-violent resistance off the table, you let violence win! You bow before the false god of killing and destruction! Is not God/Allah, the all powerful and ALL MERCIFUL? Hate is a destructive force, infinitely seductive, but like a parasite, it destroys it's host.

It would be too easy for Lebanon to adopt Israel's false fig leaf of "defending" itself, but as soon as they stoop to the same level as Israel they lose the propaganda war, they give Israel more of an excuse to enlarge the war.

Lebanon as a nation needs to take a clear stand on Hizbollah. Are they complicit with Hizbollah attacks? Or do they really intend to stop Hizbollah and prosecute those who launch the attacks into Israel?

I doubt the US would tolerate the Klan or any other extremist group launching rockets at Canada or Mexico. It would be a embarassment.
But the CIA backed wars in South America are an entirely different matter that might more closely reflect the relatioship between Hizbollah and Lebanon....or is it Hizbollah ad Iran?

7/19/2006 11:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Khalid,

I am an Israeli, living in israel, and would like to give you a glimpse of the other side of this conflict - as it looks from here.

1. Islam extremists have made it very clear that they will try and distroy any free country out there. This is their clear interest since relegion feeds of ignorance. Freedom on the other hand defies ignorance and pushes for advancement, both in quality of life, and personal achievement - which leads to the seach for knowledge - which leads to the lack of blind faith and foundamentalizm.

As long as your relegios leaders (who usually are rich and powerful, while the population beside them has nothing to eat...) preach for blind belief in the kuran - and ZERO tolerance for other people and religons - the world faces serious existance danger.

2. I am not religios, but I am free to choose what to believe in my faith. It seems that islamic arabs are always trying to race each other on 'who believes more' and 'who will do more to prove he believes'. This is very very dangurous, since the ultimate proof of beliefe is DEATH for your cause.

3. Just to let you know, I have a family, and a happy, quite life. However, in almost every place you go, with everyone I know (including my broader family circle) you find casualties of the extremist islamic arabs who blow up and kill wommen & children - within our cities. Grief can be found everywhere you look.

4. If you look at history's best achievments - in science, art and whatever you want to look at - there are never any islamic arabs there - right ?

You know why ? not becuase islamic arabs are different than anyone else. Not because they have less socio-economic starting points to go and scollar. There is only one reason - they waist their entire lives following an old goat story (kuran / bible / new test.) instead of living the present while taking care of their loved ones, and strive for better life, quite and piece.

My only conclusion is that:

islam = hate
islamic arabs = armageddon

I have no doubt that when this world will end (possibly Iran Nuc) it will come from an islamic arab pushing the red button.

My suggestion to the Islamic arabs out there :

A. Wake up - come and join the party - the world can be beautiful if you look at it directly and not through the letters of a religios book

B. Get a babe (preferably without a vale) that will make you feal good when you wake up in the morning, and when you go to bed at night

C. Go study something creative, useful and be someone. Learn to ask questions, and dare your faith with the other option.

D. Try to talk to some isralis or americans you hate so much, learn about the other side you think you know so well, but in fact know nothing about

E. Get an iPod - its really cool, and the sound quality is the best, however, to really get it to go, get some western music to listen to.

F. Remember that your brain is the most powerful machine ever built - there is no way it was designed by alla only to read kuran and pray.

G. Listen to your heart - not your leaders (believe me, we do the same here.)

If you need help with any of the above, I will be glad to help.

Best wishes,

S.W.

7/20/2006 04:19:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

Khalid, it'd good to see you back online. The events occurring because of Israel threaten to spin out of control and ignite a wider war. While I don't think Hezbollah was right to snatch the soldiers, the Israeli response has been ludicrous overreaction. Either these people have nuts for brains, or I fear that a secondary agenda drives this war.

That secondary agenda might be to help ignite just such a conflict with Syria and/or Iran. The Neocon hawks (or should I say Chickenhawks) are jumping up and down for the US to hit Iran. What idiots. They really are drowning in their own arrogance.

If they think that the rest of the world is going to help them against Iran, they are deluded. And if they think that they will be able to win a long term struggle against both Arab and Persian without bankrupting their empire and losing great amounts of blood, they are idiots.

But then, every time I think these neocon fruitcakes have reached the limits of their stupidity, they manage to surprise me again.

7/20/2006 05:54:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Danny

"And while I don't want to blame anyone" hahahahah!!! :D :D could you read your comment again and then read this last line i quoted? :D
Danny, i will write you a satisfying response soon, keep coming back please:)

Aladdin

*with a wise face and calm voice*: its our responsibility, my brother, to open their eyes. have patience, and be merciful, and tell them the truth, and oneday...they will see the light.

ano 08:16:54

nonviolence resistance is sweet and is good when you write a romantic poem, but let me explain: if someone had in one room, the ten people you love the most in life, and tied them up and started with the first one, beating him with a hammer right on the face, the first hit broke the first victim's nose and two of his teeth, everyone screamed and ddi nothing, and second hit broke other two teeth and openned a wide wound in his forehead and started bleeding, you came gently and asked the enemy to stop doing that, but of course he continued, after the second hit on the face with the hammer, the victim died, and the enemy held his hammer and moved to the second victim, who is another one of the people you love the most, once he start hitting him, you wrote a petition, and by the time you finsihed writting it, he finished smashing his head and you saw his brain on the ground, and he headed toward the third one of the people you love the most, so you decided that you have to act and make a demonstration! and while you organised the demonstration and went to participate in it, you came back to find that he killed other five, you have only two left, two people of the ones you love the most, because the other eight, are not only dead, but you cant recognise their faces anymore so you wont know how to barry them, their faces are completely destroyed, and while he was walking towards the victim number nine, you discovered that you have a gun, will you think twice?
if you had it all the way from the beginning, would you use it and save all your loved ones after he started hitting the first one? see what i am talking about?

S.W.

i couldnt stop myself from smiling all the way through your comment, and then laughed at the Ipod part.
you are halarious.
i need you to come back in the coming two days, i will write you a suitable reply, i might make it a new post too.
:)
thanks for your comment.

Bruno

my friend, i agree, a second agenda, and this is gonna hopefuly be too in my long coming answer.
why dont you agre on Hizbolla kidnapping the soldiers though?:) i will talk about this too.
good to see you around.

7/20/2006 11:14:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

http://mysteriouseve.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_20.html#links

7/20/2006 11:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bruno,

I will come back. Promise.

Just don't kill any of my friends until i do.

S.W.

7/20/2006 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

see how the Israeli army is doing a great job against Hizbullah!

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2006/07/dont-feel-sorry-for-him.html

notice SW. how the Israeli children are full of love, unlike us!

http://www.aimislam.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=476

7/20/2006 02:08:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

SW, man you should be a stand up comedian.
be patient, i will be back!
;)

7/20/2006 02:10:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

a picture of the Israeli love, SW! http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1824642,00.html

the result of love till last night is over 280 civillians killed and about 24 Lebanese soldiers (knowing the Lebanese army didnt even participate in this war, yet). and hundreds of wounded civillians too.

7/20/2006 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Latest news:


Lebanese Dead: > 320 (AP, AFP)
Israeli Dead: > 16 (Haaretz, Jerusalem Post)

see WS, a much greater chance that Israek will kill a dozen of Lebanese before anyone kills one of your freinds!
so Dont worry.

7/20/2006 02:22:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Those Lebanese terrorists deserve this in your opinion for sure, right?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1824751,00.html

7/20/2006 02:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys,

be serious - while the Hizbolla continues to store rocket launchers and heavy weapons in civiliant houses (with children in them) - innocent people are bound to get hurt. The hizbolla is using your innocent families as live shields. Even labanese gov officials admit that the hizbolla dosnt give a rats blue ass about the population and the coutry.

I can tell you that the last thing we need, and want is vendictive arabs on our asses. We are trying to do our very best to hit only the actual hezbolla terrorists and weapon stores. But again - bombs tend to explode when they hear arabic...

S.W.

7/20/2006 05:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way khalid,

Regarding the link you sent, let me tell you a little story.

The Hezbollah has been under siege by the air raids, and have been looking for ways to move their launchers and rockets (so they could fire at our cities). The way they found was to impersonate their vehicles to farmer trucks - covered by canvas to hide what's underneath. Since we had no other choice, and after spreading millions of warning leaflets to the population (telling them to drive trucks without cover) we hit suspicious vehicles that seemed to be a threat to us.

Again, the Hezbollah is ironically using the population as a vessel for its own cause.

You among all other should know that most Arabs are killed by other Arabs - see Iraq for that matter.

Israel gains nothing - beside bad public opinion from hurting civilians - you must acknowledge that.

7/20/2006 06:27:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

before this last comment i was taking you seriously and willing to reply to you poiont-to-point but now its obvious you are just a crasy fanatic zionist that no facts, numbers or logic will work with you.
:)
you even stopped being halarious, or even slightly funny.
i was going to dedicate along post to you, answering your all questions, now i will just post because i want to clear the fog of lies you distributed here, which also the american and isreali media is spreading everywhere.

my reply will answer your point though, but i stopped liking you and it wont be dedicated to you, you fanatic extremest zionist full-of-hate land-stealing people-murdering-supporter "isreali".

:*)
me*

7/20/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE SW's:
4. If you look at history's best achievments - in science, art and whatever you want to look at - there are never any islamic arabs there - right ?

hahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!

One word: ZERO

Without the concept of ZERO, to which we can all thank the Arabs, there would be no algebra (also an Arabic contribution, I believe) and there would be no higher math. No computers, no cars, no engineering, nada.

SW needs to do a little history study. While Europe was stuggling in the dark ages, the Middle East was in a vastly more refined, more cultured, more educated golden age.

And for you drinkers out there, Arabs invented distilled liquor.

SW'S racist sweeping conclusions strike me as at odds with the number of engineers and doctors in Iraq alone.

But I'll leave that to more knowledgeable people to answer.

Seb(you know the rest, Khalid)

7/21/2006 01:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that you are so brainwashed with this propaganda that you choose the easy path and just decide not to talk - this is the same with the Palestinians politicians here. They come to a point where discussions need to be a little un-pleasant, and they decide to walk away and blow some busses in Tel-Aviv.

As for me, well, let me tell you this : My political views where always tending to the left. I am against violence, however, this has come to far. Its time for the western world to deal with terrorism and evil. Unfortunately, you as a person are probably caught in circumstances. I am sure that if we both sit down with a good pint of beer in our hands(Guiness preferably, though Vinestephan can work too), we could find a lot to talk about, and even agree.

I am sorry if i touched a sensitive spot somewhere, however, I feel that just yelling around and canceling your posts is not what this blog platform is all about.

Be brave, face your enemy (me) and learn that in fact I am not anyone's enemy after all (well, my bank manager doesn't like me very much...), I'm just a quite guy with two amazing kids who wants peace tranquility.

Lets talk - I promise not to sound extremist from now on (I really despise the extremist settlers, so we have something in common to start with…)

S.W.

7/21/2006 06:19:00 AM  
Anonymous pietro said...

It seems some young Israeli's are using the same stereotypes the Nazi's used against them. Very sad. But I guess it's easier to kill people that are inferior. Hopefully their God is buying these lines too accept I think it's the same God. Good to see you blogging Khalid.
"People are being killed on both sides, but it is funny that only Lebanon is being asked to fulfill their obligations under UN resolutions. Has the world forgotten about the resolutions that Israel is currently in breach of? The tragedy of all this hatred is both sides are losing some wonderful people and really don't seem to mind. The fight will continue but I find it difficult to see how either side reflects the care and respect for those killed by their rhetoric and continued violence.
I believe the longer this lasts the better off Hezbollah will be and both the US and Isreal will have severely weakened positions. I am also curious how MS. Rice can continue to be praised and be the diplomat of peace when she has been in charge while the ME has seen some of its most violent times. She is at the forefront of US policies of intimidation and canot be taken seriously by Arabs or Shia in any negotiations. Washington has made it clear what should happen to Hamas and Hezbollah and showed in Iraq how it intends to build democracy. Where is her bargaining power and mutual iniciatives for peace going to come from? Certainly not out of concern for the Palestinians whose elected Hamas government wasn't good enough although democratic or Hezbollah and its elected officials.

7/21/2006 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

haha:))

SW, who said anythign about cancinling posts?
i said i will still answer the post but i stopped liking yo and wont address you but will make a post that includes an answer to your points, i was trying to get rid of you or have you adjust your tone to a more peaceful one, ok since i didnt manage tog et rid of you at least we moved to a more peaceful way of talking, which is great.
i am gonna address your points, point-to-point but you have to agree on the following two points:

1. you have to be really acreful with your words, be sure i am gonna hold you responsibility for everyword, so dont say anythign you acnt defend, this is not an Israeli radio channel where you can say anythign and get away with it, here you will actually here the facts and numbers that will prove you wrong, and make you more careful with what you say.

2. we are here aiming to find the truth, so commit here in front of all people, that when i address a point and prove you wrong, you will admit it, and wont be stubbern and just go " i see what you are saying but it doesnt matter, i am right anyways" cause that will make it totally useless.

once you say tha tyou read and agreed on the above terms, we move to the juicy parts!

7/21/2006 10:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why terms ? just talk will ya.

I don't need to accept any of those terms since they are already the foundation of everything i say, however, in here - we are not politicians (god forbid). I rely on information to the best of my knowledge.

BTW, I am writing this now, while the sirens roar in the background - a couple of houses have been hit close to my apartment. It seems that there are casualties. Hizbollah must be getting ready for noon nap, so they shoot some rockets, and go to bed...

S.W.

7/21/2006 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

alright, so lets not twist everythign and play with words, seems to me that you just said a yes!
alrigghttt....
:D
me*

7/21/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Pietro wants to pash Rice said...

It's an uncomfortable thing to say, "Pietro", but from where I sit Israel seems to be gaining credibility during this conflict.

The problem for Hezbollah is that Israel is ignoring the likes of Hills Clinton standing on the sidelines. Hillary is rabbiting on about "American" values and Israel has completely disregarded her - because clearly the last thing it is, is a war about "American values". Even Khalid, an avid critic of Israel, has pointed out that it's more of a finger biting competition.

Israel is actually turning down outside assistance during this whole charade (and the Gaza strip wars have become a charade).

From where I sit, it seems Israel quite clearly wants to demonstrate it can go it alone and that Israhlis have the power to stand up for themselves where once upon a time in history they didn't. It's what you might call an honor thing, beyond the petty pillocking for pity that Hexboallah has been trying to manipulate through the media.

I can't say I agree with any war at all, but I can see that Israel seems to be responding to provocation in a uniquely Israeli way that oddly may be defusing a longterm problem and may even gain Israel some "respec" from Hezbollah and Hamas.

Anon 03:12:23 - Nice try at a spin on Lebanon responding passively. But a complete fallacy all the same. Basically Lebanon has achieved right wing paradise and has an army so deregulated it doesn't have to claim responsibility for it - Hezbollah. What is Lebabon doing? Feigning innocence when it's troops act up, like America does.

(Anyway, what a dumb thing of Hillary to say - "American values", as if values belong to anyone. She reminds me of the way certain socialists go on as if nobody ever thought of truth or justice or righteous wars before Karl Marx. As if he invented the things. A preposterous notion. A complete gospel was dedicated to truth long before Marx or any other fraud was even born.)

7/21/2006 02:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Khalid (or any other of you guys living in Iraq/Iran/Syria etc...),

Are you interested in freedom and democracy, or are you comfortable with the way you are being ruled by the powers at be ?

S.W.

7/21/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Blogger Aladdin said...

To the Isreali 'anan' who bothered himself to write an 'manifesto' to draw a misleading picture of Israel as a 'peaceloving' nation, which is absolutely wrong.

Islam has never been 'Hate' Mr., on the contrary, and if you're well learned about human achievements in the fields of science and art, you might realize that Islam has given much to humanity, unlike Judaism which seems largely unproductive and parasite in this field.

The inter-faith 'conflict', as it were, was always and will be fuelled by 'political' propaganda. During the Crusades and the Inquistions in Spain, the Islamic-Jewish relations were at best. The 13th century Sufi and poet Jalaluddin Rumi (best seller auther now in the USA) was a real custodian of Jewish mysticism (Kabbalism).

Therefore, your argument about Islam being 'hate' and 'unproductive' for humanity turns to be fallacious!!!

The so-called 'political Islam', which is the cause of increasing panic and concern among peoples in the West (and of course the 'Western' country of Israel), is knowingly the byproduct of the US-Soviet Cold War. Political Islam was manipulated by the US to ratiliate its Soviet rival. This is known and everyone knows now that Bin Laden was trained by the US to hit anti-American targets. I guess you also know that the increasingly hated HAMAS by Isrealis was appreciated and supported to hit the Fatah Movement of Palestine.

It's also known that it's Israel, and not the Arabs, who promulgate hate and bigotry. It's an Israeli industry par excellence. The Israeli children literature is full of references to the Palestinian and Arab characters as terrorists.

I advise you to visit this website http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.info to see pictures of Israeli young girls writing a 'dedication' on rockets to be launched to hit the civilians and children in Lebanon!! I guess this will help you form a better idea of your beloved and peaceloving country!!!

I believe the only solution to this bloodshed is the full eradication of this 'myth' called Israel. "Israel is the root of all evil in the world", a statement said in the US movie "Beautiful Mind" and omitted by US State censorship!!

Milleniullists always tried to convince their fellow Christians that the mass immigeration of the downtrodden Jews of the Diaspora will 'help the Messiah to come back' as Herzel himself claimed to believe, but we're now in 2006 and he has NOT come yet, so I see it's prudent to get back to your indigenous countries so that you will not cause more embarrassment to the Western beleivers in the return of the Messiah.

If you're a practical, secular type of an Israeli, you should go back to your 'real' country, whether in Russia, the US, the UK, Germany, Poland, etc, because the original causes of immigeration during the first half of the 20th century is now changed for better for you. Jews are no longer persecuted in Russia or in any other country. Jews, your real homelands are much safer now than this so-called 'Israel', there are more work opportunities, and of course you won't be threatened all the time by hard-line, hateful Arabists and Islamists!!

It's time you realized that Israel is 'myth': the religious, political and economic justifications to establish a historical 'Hebrew' State in the Middle East seems now obsolete and inappropriate.

Israelis, leave Palestine to its 'original' people, stop terrorizing your neighbours using a sill excuse called 'self-defence', you neednt defend yourself while surrounded with your loving Westerners, anti-semitism has ended in the West now, dudes!!

7/21/2006 07:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

can you understand...this

Rice Aims to Achieve Lasting Peaceful Conditions on Mideast Trip

7/21/2006 09:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason not to occupy all the arab homeland at once, is we need to test new weapons over a longer period and sell the old to the arabs. That way we can kill them and insult them because they cannot resist.

But i do think US had invaded iran by now if not for putin and the left wing movement in europe.

Thats why they there ise all this bollocks about involving syria and iran now.

If there is one thing to show imperialism is finally on the loosing hand.. and i am not sure there is, it is israel has to show the US-israel agression herself now.

One brilliant young dutch guy came with the following solution..
All lebanese should flee.

The israeli's must have liked the idea, the next day they send out this ordre that all south lebanese should flee. So that they can kill the remaining and pretend they are radical islamists. It's obvious.
And sadly i think it is not over yet.

As to condoleeza, i think she is jewish . I know it is rasist to think like dat. But what other reason can she have. It's a really embarrasing affair, (and perhaps i will one day get prosecuted before telling these things) but a very large part of the rulers in netherlands have always been jews, and the structure pretty much implies it is not unique.(so also gb, usa, former colony's, and i don't know what else)

So there is the reason for the lack of solidarity with the arab community.. it cannot easily be helped since Israel is in the hierarchic structure.
And capitalism needs an enemy to test and use the weapons. (apart from securing the resources)

So i know no solution. My prognosis is they will continue to surpress country's (through 'un resolutions' and what not) 1559 ,somalia, bolivia, syria, iran ,north korea, whatever.(pakistan, china, cuba russia, belorussia i really don't know where it will start and stop.)

They will all the time say it is for freedom, (since that is presented and perceived as 'judeochristian values' some ppl will believe this.)

They will probably always use and adopt disproportional violence.
They will force us to belief all lies. 8-11, golden musque, they will hide the nr's of their victims forever..(afghanistan , vietnam, irak)
what can we do?
They have such good weapons..
the lebanese government knows very well why they don't fight.
Only a sacrifical people can fight such weapons. And they can't do well. Perhaps evryone should flee.

Ofcourse for me it's easy to talk, but i wish you could all flee.
When i look at my not very active msn list.. i can't help but thinking,
if i had to be a palistinean, all these good people i have met in my life, might well be dead people.

I don't envy israelians, and our world to suffer that. Not do i envy irak for having suffered saddam(is my impression), or usa for suffering bush.
(with his sick rethorics)

i dont envy europeans becus they are so biased and silly, and i dont envy usians becus they are nasty people besides. It's a complicated world.

christians are traditionally scared for islam and these days they are brainwashed to be scared for evrything,(otherways imho it wouldnt have worked) to promote police control and the hate for russia and communism, so they are most helpfull.

7/21/2006 10:56:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

A protests' fan?

http://www.lebanonexpats.org/

7/22/2006 05:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an American, I can only say how saddened I am by the destruction I see going on in Lebanon. I cannot appreciate any excuse for the killings and destruction. We only hear what we are wanted to hear, but with friends, who are Lebanese and watch Lebanese television and share it with me, I feel as though I have a window to know the truth. I tell them I feel some responsiblity about all of this. In their loving, beautiful hearts they tell me I am not responsible. I talk to my American friends and all they know about is "the terrorists" and few real facts. Prejudice is blind and demands for destruction and killing. Would that a mighty David of old come with his stone and destroy Prejudice. "When the love of power becomes the power of love, then we will have peace." My prayers are for all innocents. An American with a very heavy heart.

7/22/2006 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous pietro said...

Now if only some of that love reaches the hearts of our supposed leaders whose talk of the sanctity of life rings hollow on the people they supposedly serve.

7/22/2006 05:31:00 PM  
Blogger Aladdin said...

Seems Mr. S.W. has nothing to say about my comment on his 'wisdom'!! I repeat my argument, go back to your 'real' homeland, and you'll be richer and safer.

7/22/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Joe41 said...

There are close to 40% of Christians in Lebanon that are, along with the innocent Muslim groups, getting killed and their livelihood interrupted by destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon and causing billions of dollars in damages. How is this a solution?

The Israeli response is not limited to those that committed the first act (Hezbollah) and is helping those that are behind it (Syria and Iran). They are applying collective punishment, including the innocent. In the process, the instigators, Syria and Iran, are profiting from the misery applied on the Lebanese. There were close to two million tourists in Lebanon and most of them now are in Syrian hotels and the country is in ruin. The world was close on acting against Iran nuclear ambition and now the attention is dissipated by the disproportionate action in Lebanon and by not limiting the response to those that triggered the event.

To see the destruction of Lebanon, go here

http://www.freewebs.com/lebanondestruction/

Warning, graphic

7/23/2006 05:31:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

what do you think about this?
http://www.nkusa.org/aboutus/index.cfm

7/23/2006 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

This is really important, Israel's violations to international laws and UN resolutions:

http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/07/violations.html

7/23/2006 04:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there are two paradigms here: one the "terrorism" paradigm where terrorism is the monism. it is regretfully not viewed as a reactionary phenomenon, but rather the source, the cause of all ills, manifesting from your guess is mine....but likely from that crazy, irrational, violent arab gene (satire alert).

concomitantly there is the “occupation” paradigm, where occupation is believed to be the veritable source of most instability in the ME and thus making terrorism a reaction, a tactic of the militarily weaker, often of a people occupied and subjugated, deprived of basic human dignity and worth.

the missing word, the elephant in the room here, in regards to lubnan, filastine and al-iraq is OCCUPATION. the reprehensible crux of occupying a people and their land is the de-humanization and sub-humanization process. thank your lucky stars because we have psychopathic pricks like ALAN DERSHOWITZ busily working to re-evaluate select people’s humanity. the following editorial almost made me keel over and deject my breakfast....it is a prime example of Orientalism, the xenophobic, racists system of thought that has locked the ‘west’ and ‘east’ in a deadly dance for hundreds of years, and it is our obligation, especially those living in the dominate sphere which is the determined propagator of this paradigm, to counter this destructive force and offer up a new paradigm, predicted on mutual co-existence and respect. read dershowitz’s load of BS at your own risk...and imagine it, tables turned, in other conflicts through out time and space, the fallacies quickly swell and burst forth, becoming too innumerable to enumerate...

pssss. US citizens – please take a few minutes to write your government to condem the israeli depredation of lubnan and while your at it, filastine also, and throw in a generous, heaping excoriation of our occupation of al-iraq for good measure too.


EDITORIAL: ALAN DERSHOWITZ

'Civilian Casualty'? It Depends
Those who support terrorists are not entirely innocent.By Alan Dershowitz
ALAN DERSHOWITZ is a professor of law at Harvard. He is the author, most recently, of "Preemption: A Knife that Cuts Both Ways."

July 22, 2006

THE NEWS IS filled these days with reports of civilian casualties, comparative civilian body counts and criticism of Israel, along with Hezbollah, for causing the deaths, injuries and "collective punishment" of civilians. But just who is a "civilian" in the age of terrorism, when militants don't wear uniforms, don't belong to regular armies and easily blend into civilian populations?

We need a new vocabulary to reflect the realities of modern warfare. A new phrase should be introduced into the reporting and analysis of current events in the Middle East: "the continuum of civilianality." Though cumbersome, this concept aptly captures the reality and nuance of warfare today and provides a more fair way to describe those who are killed, wounded and punished.

There is a vast difference — both moral and legal — between a 2-year-old who is killed by an enemy rocket and a 30-year-old civilian who has allowed his house to be used to store Katyusha rockets. Both are technically civilians, but the former is far more innocent than the latter. There is also a difference between a civilian who merely favors or even votes for a terrorist group and one who provides financial or other material support for terrorism.

Finally, there is a difference between civilians who are held hostage against their will by terrorists who use them as involuntary human shields, and civilians who voluntarily place themselves in harm's way in order to protect terrorists from enemy fire.

These differences and others are conflated within the increasingly meaningless word "civilian" — a word that carried great significance when uniformed armies fought other uniformed armies on battlefields far from civilian population centers. Today this same word equates the truly innocent with guilty accessories to terrorism.

The domestic law of crime, in virtually every nation, reflects this continuum of culpability. For example, in the infamous Fall River rape case (fictionalized in the film "The Accused"), there were several categories of morally and legally complicit individuals: those who actually raped the woman; those who held her down; those who blocked her escape route; those who cheered and encouraged the rapists; and those who could have called the police but did not.

No rational person would suggest that any of these people were entirely free of moral guilt, although reasonable people might disagree about the legal guilt of those in the last two categories. Their accountability for rape is surely a matter of degree, as is the accountability for terrorism of those who work with the terrorists.

It will, of course, be difficult for international law — and for the media — to draw the lines of subtle distinction routinely drawn by domestic criminal law. This is because domestic law operates on a retail basis — one person and one case at a time. International law and media reporting about terrorism tend to operate on more of a wholesale basis — with body counts, civilian neighborhoods and claims of collective punishment.

But the recognition that "civilianality" is often a matter of degree, rather than a bright line, should still inform the assessment of casualty figures in wars involving terrorists, paramilitary groups and others who fight without uniforms — or help those who fight without uniforms.

Turning specifically to the current fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Hamas, the line between Israeli soldiers and civilians is relatively clear. Hezbollah missiles and Hamas rockets target and hit Israeli restaurants, apartment buildings and schools. They are loaded with anti-personnel ball-bearings designed specifically to maximize civilian casualties.

Hezbollah and Hamas militants, on the other hand, are difficult to distinguish from those "civilians" who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks.

The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit. Some — those who cannot leave on their own — should be counted among the innocent victims.

If the media were to adopt this "continuum," it would be informative to learn how many of the "civilian casualties" fall closer to the line of complicity and how many fall closer to the line of innocence.

Every civilian death is a tragedy, but some are more tragic than others.

END EDITORIAL


--------peace, akkadia

7/24/2006 08:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

I doubt "Aladin" is going to get much of a response from "SW". One and the same if you ask me. I'd be surprised if either of them have ever set a foot in either Israel or Lebanon.

Seriously, the worst thing about this war is that Hamas, Hezbollah and most of the commentary on this blog is so "wah wah", as Khalid might say, that it makes you all look like spoiled loudmouth brats. All running around crying crocodile tears when you got what you wanted from the start - your bloody war.

Seeing as "SW" is so obviously a construct, I might as well answer "Aladin" as anyone.

Aladin says "Israelis, leave Palestine to its 'original' people".

Apart from this particular squirmish being in Lebanon and not Palestine, unless Palestine occupied Lebanon all of a sudden in the last few weeks that I haven't heard about, Aladin is just begging for someone to point out what a foolish statement he just made.

By the rhetoric of Hamas, Hezbollah, the might as well be defunct PLO and various uninformed dupes young and old, Palestine has no "original" people. Being full of displaced refugees you could hardly call it's occupants "original". Unless, you were willing to conceed that Israelis are as original as anyone. Seeing as Judaism was the first religion in the region pre-dating Christianity and Islam by some few centuries, you should probably conceed that point at some time or another unless you want to look like a troll.

Paradigms be damned, the last thing this world needs is more lies.

7/25/2006 04:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Love said...

Sounds like a phobia.

7/25/2006 09:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's so terrible to see how ppl start debates, point to others, discredits comments and speaks as if they got the holy and undeniable truth...

i guess this blog, as almost any conversation nowdays, is poluted with opposed "truths", and titanical arguments with the "but my truth is the truth" watermark.
ppl should start to remember that the most they know, the most they should be aware of their ignoranc and with this start a productive conversation, not a sterile discussion. try to convince, don't indoctrinate.

pitty. as it looks, my recently born child will live in a religion-power war-torn world.

s

7/25/2006 04:50:00 PM  
Blogger Aladdin said...

My reply to Mr. Funny, I mean the anonymous entity who calls itself "Paradigm my eye", is that I was 'clear' enough about the 'root' of the problem, which is invariably the very existence of the Zionist state called 'Israel' in the region.

By the 'original' homelands of the so-called Israelis are the countries of the Diaspora. You can't be more ignorant if you dont know that Israel was 'made' by turrents of immigrants from Eastern Europe, Russia, and the US, among other countries. (Of course we all know that the dying Ariel Sharon is 'originally' Polish, Natanyahu is an American, etc. Therefore, playing on the 'myth' that the historical 'Kingdom of David' is or can be named 'Israel' is entirely hilarious and grotesque!!

My point is the Israelis MUST leave the occupied territories (whether in Lebanon, Palestine or Syria) and return to their European/American homelands so that they will enjoy a much safer life away from the Arab and Muslim fanatics.

7/25/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

Don't you have a lamp to rub, Aladin?

You would be less ignorant if you could admit that the PLOs original "land claim" was based on the assertion that Israel was on a migratory route that migratory peoples who now call themselves Palestinians, once traveled over.

My point is that your suggestion, "Israelis go home" is as ridiculous as suggesting that former Bedouin Arabs be confined to a strip of land protecting the rest of Arabia from opening it's bigoted mind.

It doesn't exactly take a genious to see that an invention claiming to be a voice for a select group of refugees has not one leg to stand on, in telling other returned refugees to "go home".

What you are also choosing to ignore, is that Israelis last century thought they had a lot in common with the forebears of what are Palestinians today. And they probably still do, which is why they now have chosen to fight for liberation when fired upon by Hezbollah.

Anonymous 01:50:04, it's so sad the way you stir so much crap and then crawl around weeping with paltry complaint. You have to get out of your academic paradigm and realise that counterfeit morality, cause of the pollution you lament, is nothing but an insincerity. Try to take your own advice.

7/25/2006 10:52:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Blog: Lebanese Blogger Forum
Post: Chemical Weapons used against Lebanon
Link: http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/07/chemical-weapons-used-against-lebanon.html

7/26/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

History and politics are only the setting for the ideals of those in power to exercise it. Your belief in seeing people as terrorists first and humans second is what separates you. As the US invaades Iraq within days those Iraqi's against occupation are called insurgents. Insurgents being thoughts and ideals for your brain western media doesn't want you to hear. For clearly normal every day Iraqi's couldn't be insurgenrs in their own country. It is important to separate the people dying from the fears, ideals and beliefs our leaders use to legitimize murder and destruction.

7/26/2006 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger Bruno said...

My basic position on Israel is that it was founded mostly through the use of force and the use of terror through gangs like the Stern and the Irgun. This is rather ironic when one considers the daily Israeli complaints about “Arab terror”. The fact remains that Israel’s actions today are hardly conciliatory or restrained. The “security fence” for example has been created in an attempt to consolidate and seal off the best of the land that should have belonged to the Palestinians under the 1967 borders.

Israeli actions have been geared towards marginalisation and disruption of whatever Palestinian authorities have sprung up, such as they were. With the election of Hamas, the first reaction of Israel was not to seek some sort of agreement with this entirely new set of leaders (even if only to say “we tried”) but rather immediate strangulation of the Hamas government and hence the people it represented. The participation of other countries in this embargo is a shame on their heads.

To me it seems clear that the Hezbollah action was designed to free several of their POWs from Israeli custody. The manner in which they went about it leaves something to be desired. However, the Israeli reaction was completely off the scale and quite frankly, it is clear to any neutral observer that the reaction is against Lebanon as a whole.

The pathetic “storing missiles in apartment blocks” excuse for striking those blocks does NOT in any way whatsoever excuse the actions, even IF it were true. Why, then every suicide bombing that kills a dozen Israelis or so could be excused on the basis that the bomber was “trying to kill policemen” nearby. Striking civilian areas is ILLEGAL under international law, no matter if Palestinian suicide bombers or Israeli jets do it. That goes the same for Hezbollah, which is aiming woefully inaccurate missiles at supposed military targets, which, even IF they were such, are bound to kill civilians sooner or later.

However, as it is clear that the main military action has been from the Israeli side, it is up to the Israelis to end it. Nasrallah has said that the abducted soldiers can still be released if Israel is willing to negotiate.

Clearly Israel is not.

Clearly Israel wants to punish Hezbollah and the Lebanese in general, and wants to use the bombing to instill terror into the general populace. In other words, the current actions are no better than those perpetrated by Arab suicide bombers, except that this terror is on a far greater scale. Again, it is just a little hard to be sympathetic for a nation that is systematically destroying the entire infrastructure of its neighbour, and is ethnically cleansing an entire province, in retaliation for the kidnapping of a couple of soldiers.

7/27/2006 05:56:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

from lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com i got you this link:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5048/922/1600/isch.jpg

7/27/2006 07:27:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

congratiolations "Israel" and "Israel's" supporters, 600 Lebanese civilians killed, and counting.

7/27/2006 07:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gosh Khalid, didn't you once explain to everyone why Iraqis fought back? And now you deny Israelis the right to defend themselves.

Where is your arguement for national resistance now?

Remember, Iraq, as it is today, was created at roughly the same time as Israel, as it is today...

7/28/2006 12:08:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[anon] "Gosh Khalid, didn't you once explain to everyone why Iraqis fought back? And now you deny Israelis the right to defend themselves. Where is your arguement for national resistance now?"

Gosh anon, you're right! I demand Hezbollah immediately to stop their aerial bombing offensive against Israeli infrastructure and civilians, and to withdraw their troops across the border back into their own country. Imagine, shelling (and labelling as military bases) entire civilian kibbutzes because they might 'take losses'!

Oh, wait ... that's not how the story went, is it?

That's what Israel is doing, isn't it?

7/28/2006 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

well i didnt get the chance yet to reply to long comments here and i will soon, but this last comment by ano.09:08:34 PM
is urging me to say: are you freaking kidding me? you are nto serious about botht he points are you?
"Israelis" are defending themselves?
Iraq was formed in the same time of "Israel"?
i need to punch someone in the face right now! grrr!
:)

7/28/2006 07:28:00 AM  
Blogger Nesrin said...

i guess this blog, as almost any conversation nowdays, is poluted with opposed "truths", and titanical arguments with the "but my truth is the truth" watermark.
ppl should start to remember that the most they know, the most they should be aware of their ignoranc and with this start a productive conversation, not a sterile discussion. try to convince, don't indoctrinate.

im sorry? youre one to talk, thats exactly what youre doing.´
and away from you...

UGH. the news IS sickening...compare all those images of lebanon and poor ol israel, its shocking how utterly destroyed israel is, and all those poor israeli refugees out there on the beach...

7/28/2006 08:46:00 PM  
Blogger khalid jarrar said...

Guys, since i know Nesrin, i have to clarify that she is being sarcastic there.
:)
me*

7/30/2006 05:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Disappointing to see Khalid only able to offer a punch in the face and Bruno misunderstanding the point again - his own argument once being that Iraq (a country whose modern borders were drawn at roughly the same time as Israel’s) has the right to defend itself.

But now that Israel has defended itself, after being deliberately provoked, I suddenly seem to see the argument in favour of national defence once touted by other commenters here, has vaporised.

Quote "Oh, wait ... that's not how the story went, is it?" unquote, Bruno.

I really don't know how the rest of your story went, Bruno, no doubt it ran something like "national resistance ra ra ra arm yourselves against the imperialists taroo talay strap on this weapon and be a hero yip yip yip etc".

So sorry that it does not fit your political agenda right this minute, Bruno.

7/31/2006 01:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

That last anonymous was me, "Paradigm my eye".

7/31/2006 01:07:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[paradigm] "But now that Israel has defended itself, after being deliberately provoked, I suddenly seem to see the argument in favour of national defence once touted by other commenters here, has vaporised."

Defence is one thing. However, the concept of proportionate retaliation is another. It's like claiming Hitler carried out the Holocaust in self defence. It's like justifying 9-11 as an act of self defence because of US troops in Saudi Arabia. The proportionate response is out of the window.

Hitting Hezbollah is fine. But destroying Lebanon as a whole is clearly ludicrous, and goes far beyond what a reasonable person would accept as 'self defence'. The ethnic cleansing that Israel is carrying out in South Lebanon is remeniscent of the Kosovo crisis. And we all know how that was seen.

7/31/2006 06:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

Ethnic cleansing in Lebanon? Sure. That must explain how come Israeli forces have been doing pamphlet drops to warn civilians before they hit an area with Hezbollah infrastructure in it. It probably also explains why Israel suspended bombing for 48 hours to give civilians a chance to get out. I don't know what your interpretation of "clean" means, but obviously Israel wants a clean war with minimal casualties.

That Hezbollah has been able to move weapons around Lebanon but has not facilitated the movement of Lebanese civilians to safe areas away from the front line while Hezbollah conducts its aggressions suggests Hezbollah has failed Lebanese civilians and is intentionally using Lebanese civilians as human collatoral that can be politically manipulated after Lebanese bodies have served their purpose as human sandbags. I mean shields.

Bruno, Hezbollah instigated the conflict. Hezbollah could have included keeping civilians safe when Hezbollah planned its attack but evidently protecting civilians is not a Hezbollah priority. I heard reports a few days ago that Hezbollah was providing food for civilians in an area of conflict, effectively luring hungry, traumatised people into a death trap. Crude, and cowardly.

8/02/2006 05:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello to all of you evil doers in this post.

Please forgive my delay in posting the next peice. I am now away from my country - a refugee. You think that only lebanon and arabs suffer ? well, think again.

You see only what your biosed media wants you to. Its time you wake up and smell what you are being fed.

8/02/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those who don't know, Dennis Miller is a comedian
who has a show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO.
He is not Jewish.

He recently said the following about the Modest situation:

"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service
to all Americans who still don't get it,
I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs,
which is all you really need.

Here we go:

The Palestinians want their own country.
There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians.
It's a made up word.
Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years.
Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient
but is really a modern invention

Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war,
Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan,
and there were no "Palestinians."

As soon as the Jews took over and started growing
oranges as big as basketballs,
what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians,"
weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."

So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian"
anymore to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy
at our deaths, until someone points out they're being taped.


Instead, let's call them what they are
:
"Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life
And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In
The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.
How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."
Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country.
Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't.
They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years,
especially two years ago at Camp David
but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights
and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse,
you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.

That's no fun. No, they want what all the other
Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.
They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course --
that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity"
as their textbooks call it --
for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries
to divert the attention of their own people
away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate,
poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth,
and if you've ever been around God's Earth . . . you know
that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic
about the great history and culture of the Muslim Midleast.
Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the
world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that
one.

Chew this around & spit it out: 500 million Arabs; 5 million Jews.
Think of all the Arab countries as a football field,
and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it.
And now these same folks swear that, if Israel gives them
half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals..

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to
obliterate the tiny country and the constant din
of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea?
Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day:
Just reverse the Numbers.
Imagine 500 million Jews and 5 million Arabs.
I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it .
Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades
and dynamite to themselves? Of course not.

Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations
to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense.
Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible.
Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their
bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace,
the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that,
with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as
Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible,
and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of
super models who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger
of losing moral weight. We've already lost some.
After September 11th, our president told us and the world he was going
to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them.
Beautiful.
Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of
an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day),
start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day,
we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration
to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean
and east of the Jordan.

Please feel free to pass this along to your friends
Walk in peace! Be Happy! Have a wonderful life

8/02/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all you weak hearted poor americans who have a problem with the war and specifically israel's actions - read this :

- Remember vietnam ?
- Remember Iraq (episode 1)
- Remember Afganistan ?
- Remember Iraq (episode 2)

Fuck you all together. You are no better than those poisend minded iraqies and terrorists posting here.

S.W.

BTW - the previous 2 posts are mine as well, forgot to sign my bombs...

8/02/2006 07:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For all you ignorant arabs out there, here is a short list (partial) of important jewish/israeli Nobel Prise winners :

Alexei Alexeevich Abrikosov, Russia, for pioneering contributions to the theory of superconductors and superfluids (Jewish mother)
Zhores Alferov, Russia, (Jewish mother)
Hans Bethe, US, (Jewish mother)
Felix Bloch, Swiss and US, for his development of new methods for nuclear magnetic precision measurements and discoveries in connection therewith
Niels Bohr, Denmark, for his quantum model of the atom (Jewish mother)
Max Born, Germany, UK and US, for his fundamental research in quantum mechanics, especially for his statistical interpretation of the wavefunction
Georges Charpak, France (Jewish father)
Claude Cohen-Tannoudji, France,(Tunisian-Jewish parents)
Leon Neil Cooper, US,
Albert Einstein, German, later US, for theory of the photoelectric effect
Richard P. Feynman, US, for their fundamental work in quantum electrodynamics, with deep-ploughing consequences for the physics of elementary particles
James Franck, Germany, for their discovery of the laws governing the impact of an electron upon an atom
Ilya Frank, Russia, (Jewish father)
Jerome Isaac Friedman, US, for their pioneering investigations concerning deep inelastic scattering of electrons on protons and bound neutrons, which have been of essential importance for the development of the quark model in particle physics
Dennis Gabor, Hungary, for his invention and development of the holographic method
Murray Gell-Mann, US, for his contributions and discoveries concerning the classification of elementary particles and their interactions"
Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, Russia, for pioneering contributions to the theory of superconductors and superfluids
Donald Arthur Glaser, US, for the invention of the bubble chamber
Sheldon Lee Glashow, US, for their contributions to the theory of the unified weak and electromagnetic interaction between elementary particles, including, inter alia, the prediction of the weak neutral current
Roy Glauber, U.S. physicist, Nobel Prize (2005)
David Gross, US, for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction
Robert Hofstadter, US, for his pioneering studies of electron scattering in atomic nuclei and for his thereby achieved discoveries concerning the structure of the nucleons
Brian David Josephson, UK, for his theoretical predictions of the properties of a supercurrent through a tunnel barrier, in particular those phenomena which are generally known as the Josephson effect
Lev Davidovich Landau, Russia, for his pioneering theories for condensed matter, especially liquid helium
Leon Max Lederman, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino
David Lee, US,
Gabriel Lippmann, France, for his method of reproducing colours photographically based on the phenomenon of interference
Albert Abraham Michelson, US, for his optical precision instruments and the spectroscopic and metrological investigations carried out with their aid
Ben Roy Mottelson, US and Denmark,for the discovery of the connection between collective motion and particle motion in atomic nuclei and the development of the theory of the structure of the atomic nucleus based on this connection
Douglas Osheroff, US, (Jewish father)
Wolfgang Pauli, (one non-Jewish grandparent)
Arno Allan Penzias, US, for their discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation
Martin Lewis Perl, for the discovery of the tau lepton
David Politzer, US, for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction
Isidor Isaac Rabi, US, for his resonance method for recording the magnetic properties of atomic nuclei
Frederick Reines, US,
Burton Richter, US, for their pioneering work in the discovery of a heavy elementary particle of a new kind
Arthur Schawlow, US, (Jewish father)
Melvin Schwartz, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino
Julian Schwinger, US, for his work on quantum electrodynamics
Emilio Segre, Italy and US, for discovery of antiproton
Jack Steinberger, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino
Otto Stern, US, for his contribution to the development of the molecular ray method and his discovery of the magnetic moment of the proton
Steven Weinberg, US, for their contributions to the theory of the unified weak and electromagnetic interaction between elementary particles, including, inter alia, the prediction of the weak neutral current
Eugene Wigner, US, Nuclear Engineering

Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Sidney Altman, Canada, discovery of catalytic properties of RNA
Christian Anfinsen, US, work on ribonuclease, especially concerning the connection between the amino acid sequence and the biologically active conformation (convert)
Adolf von Baeyer, Germany, for services in the advancement of organic chemistry and the chemical industry, through his work on organic dyes and hydroaromatic compounds (Jewish mother)
Paul Berg, US, for his fundamental studies of the biochemistry of nucleic acids, with particular regard to recombinant-DNA
Herbert Brown, Ukraine, development of the use of boron- and phosphorus-containing compounds, respectively, into important reagents in organic synthesis
Melvin Calvin, US, research on the carbon dioxide assimilation in plants
Aaron Ciechanover, Israel, 2004, for the discovery of ubiquitin-mediated protein degradation
Walter Gilbert, US, contributions concerning the determination of base sequences in nucleic acids
Fritz Haber, Germany, for the synthesis of ammonia from its elements (converted to Christianity)
Herbert Hauptman, US, development of direct methods for the determination of crystal structures
Alan Heeger, US, for the discovery and development of conductive polymers
Avram Hershko, Israel, 2004, for the discovery of ubiquitin-mediated protein degradation
George de Hevesy, Hungary, the use of isotopes as tracers in the study of chemical processes
Roald Hoffmann (1937 - ) American, for theories, developed independently, concerning the course of chemical reactions (1981)[1]
Jerome Karle, US, development of direct methods for the determination of crystal structures
Aaron Klug, Lithuania, development of crystallographic electron microscopy and his structural elucidation of biologically important nucleic acid-protein complexes
Walter Kohn, Austria, for his development of the density-functional theory
Harold Kroto, UK, (Jewish father)
Rudolph Marcus, Canada, contributions to the theory of electron transfer reactions in chemical systems
Henri Moissan, France, for investigation and isolation of the element fluorine, and for the adoption in the service of science of the electric furnace called after him (Jewish mother)
[citation needed]George Olah, Hungary, for his contribution to carbocation chemistry (unconfirmed)
Max Perutz, Austria, studies of the structures of globular proteins
John Polanyi, German-born British Canadian chemist, (1986), (Jewish father),
Viscount Ilya Prigogine, Belgium, contributions to non-equilibrium thermodynamics, particularly the theory of dissipative structures
Irwin Rose, US, for the discovery of ubiquitin -mediated protein degradation
William Stein, US, contribution to the understanding of the connection between chemical structure and catalytic activity of the active center of the ribonuclease molecule
Otto Wallach, Germany, pioneer work in the field of alicyclic compounds
Richard Willstatter, Germany, for his researches on plant pigments, especially chlorophyll

Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine
Richard Axel, US,
Julius Axelrod, US, discoveries concerning the humoral transmitters in the nerve terminals and the mechanism for their storage, release and inactivation
David Baltimore, US, discoveries concerning the interaction between tumor viruses and the genetic material of the cell
Robert Barany, Sweden,
Baruj Benacerraf, Venezuela, discoveries concerning genetically determined structures on the cell surface that regulate immunological reactions
Konrad Bloch, Germany, discoveries concerning the mechanism and regulation of the cholesterol and fatty acid metabolism
Baruch Blumberg, US, discoveries concerning new mechanisms for the origin and dissemination of infectious diseases
Sydney Brenner, South Africa, discoveries concerning genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death
Michael Brown, US, discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism
Ernst Chain, Germany, discovery of penicillin and its curative effect in various infectious diseases
Stanley Cohen, US, discoveries of growth factors
Gerty Cori, US (born in Prague), discovery of the course of the catalytic conversion of glycogen (born Jewish but converted to Catholicism when she married)
Gerald Edelman, US, discoveries concerning the chemical structure of antibodies
Paul Ehrlich, Germany, for work on immunity
Gertrude Elion, US, discoveries of important principles for drug treatment
Joseph Erlanger, US, for discoveries relating to the highly differentiated functions of single nerve fibers
Edmond H. Fischer, US, (Jewish father)
Robert Furchgott, US, discoveries concerning nitric oxide as a signaling molecule in the cardiovascular system
Herbert Gasser, US, (Jewish father)
Alfred Gilman, US, discovery of G-proteins and the role of these proteins in signal transduction in cells
Joseph Goldstein, US, discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism
Paul Greengard, US, for signal transduction in the nervous system
Robert Horvitz, US, discoveries concerning genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death
Francois Jacob, France, discoveries concerning genetic control of enzyme and virus synthesis
Eric Kandel, Austria, for signal transduction in the nervous system
Bernard Katz, Germany, discoveries concerning the humoral transmitters in the nerve terminals and the mechanism for their storage, release and inactivation
Arthur Kornberg, US, discovery of the mechanisms in the biological synthesis of ribonucleic acid and deoxyribonucleic acid
Hans Adolf Krebs, Germany, discovery of the citric acid cycle
Karl Landsteiner, Austria, for discovery of human blood groups
Joshua Lederberg, US, discovered genetic recombination and the organization of the genetic material of bacteria
Rita Levi-Montalcini, Italy, discoveries of growth factors
Fritz Lipmann, Germany, discovery of co-enzyme A and its importance for intermediary metabolism
Otto Loewi, Austria, for discoveries relating to chemical transmission of nerve impulses
Salvador Luria, Italy, discoveries concerning the replication mechanism and the genetic structure of viruses
Andre Lwoff, France, discoveries concerning genetic control of enzyme and virus synthesis
Ilya Ilyich Mechnikov, France, (Jewish mother)
Otto Meyerhof, Germany, for discovery of the relationship between consumption of oxygen and the metabolism of lactic acid in the muscle
Cesar Milstein, Argentina, theories concerning the specificity in development and control of the immune system and the discovery of the principle for production of monoclonal antibodies
Hermann Muller, US, discovery of the production of mutations by means of X-ray irradiation (Jewish mother)
Daniel Nathans, US, discovery of restriction enzymes and their application to problems of molecular genetics
Marshall Nirenberg, US, interpretation of the genetic code and its function in protein synthesis
Stanley Prusiner, US, discovery of Prions - a new biological principle of infection
Tadeus Reichstein, Poland, discoveries relating to the hormones of the adrenal cortex, their structure and biological effects
Martin Rodbell, US, discovery of G-proteins and the role of these proteins in signal transduction in cells
Andrew Schally, Lithuania, discoveries concerning the peptide hormone production of the brain
Howard Temin, US, discoveries concerning the interaction between tumor viruses and the genetic material of the cell
John Vane, UK, (Jewish father)
Harold Varmus, US, discovery of the cellular origin of retroviral oncogenes
Selman Waksman, Russia, discovery of streptomycin, the first antibiotic effective against tuberculosis
George Wald, US, discoveries concerning the primary physiological and chemical visual processes in the eye
Otto Warburg, Germany, (Jewish father)
Rosalyn Yalow, US, for the development of radioimmunoassays of peptide hormones

Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel
George Akerlof (2001), American economist, (Jewish mother)
Kenneth Arrow (1972), American economist,
Robert J. Aumann (2005), German-born American Israeli mathematician, game theory,
Gary Becker (1992), American economist,
Robert Fogel (1993), American economist,
Milton Friedman (1976), American economist,
John Harsanyi (1994), Hungarian-born American economist,
Daniel Kahneman (2002), Israeli-born French American psychologist,
Leonid Kantorovich (1975) Russian mathematician, linear programming, (Jewish mother),
Lawrence Klein (1980), American economist,
Simon Kuznets (1971), Ukrainian-born American economist,
Wassily Leontief (1973), Russian-born American economist, (Jewish mother)
Harry Markowitz (1990), American economist,
Robert Merton, (1997), American economist, (Jewish father),
Merton Miller (1990), American economist,
Franco Modigliani (1985), Italian-born American economist,
Herbert Simon (1978), American scientist, (Jewish father)
Paul Samuelson (1970), American economist,
Myron Scholes (1997), Canadian-born American economist,
Reinhard Selten, (1994), German economist, (Jewish father),
Robert Solow (1987), American economist,
Joseph Stiglitz (2001), American economist,

Nobel Prize in Literature
Paul Johann Ludwig von Heyse, German writer, (Jewish mother), 1910
Henri Bergson, French philosopher, 1958
Boris Pasternak, Russian poet and writer, 1958
Shmuel Yosef Agnon, Ukrainian-born Israeli writer, 1966
Nelly Sachs, German poet and dramatist, 1966
Saul Bellow, Canadian-born American writer, 1976
Isaac Bashevis Singer, Polish-born American writer, 1978
Elias Canetti, Bulgarian-born British-Austrian novelist, 1981
Joseph Brodsky, Russian American writer and poet, 1987
Nadine Gordimer, South African novelist, 1991 (Jewish father)
Imre Kertész, Hungarian author, 2002
Elfriede Jelinek, Austrian playwright and novelist, (Jewish father), 2004
Harold Pinter, British playwright and theatre director, 2005

Nobel Peace Prize
Tobias Asser, Dutch jurist, 1911
Alfred Fried, Austrian pacifist, journalist, co-founder of German peace movement, 1911
René Cassin, French jurist, drafted Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1968
Henry Kissinger, German-born American Secretary of State (1973-77) 1973
Menachem Begin, Belarusian-born Israeli Prime Minister (1977-83) 1978
Elie Wiesel, Romanian-born French American writer, for his written accounts of the Holocaust, 1986
Shimon Peres, Belarusian-born Israeli Prime Minister (1986-88 1995-96) 1994
Itzhak Rabin, Israeli Prime Minister (1974-77 1992-95) 1994
Sir Joseph Rotblat, Polish founder of Pugwash Conferences, 1995,

S.W.

8/02/2006 07:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This will be my final post, since I can't even begin to explain my disappointment from you guys. You are all potential terrorists, if not already. You are blind, walking the path of darness, and follow only the bink of the swords your leaders carry - like fish swimming to their death.

My only hope is that one day, you will wake up and see that you are really walking towards a big void.

You have no agenda, you only want to avoid dealing with your daily fucked up, wasted life.

I suggest you go back to my first post, and try doing at least one of the things I dare you to.

I for myself, will continue my persue of well being, happiness, piece (for all), good cooking, larger TFT screens, new apple audio devices and time with my friends and family.

Hope never to meet you when you are carring an exposive device on your bodies.

S.W.

8/02/2006 07:32:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[Paradigm] “Ethnic cleansing in Lebanon? Sure. That must explain how come Israeli forces have been doing pamphlet drops to warn civilians before they hit an area with Hezbollah infrastructure in it.”

Ah, shucks, well, they were WARNED.

That excuses everything.

How could I be so daft as not to understand this?

So, what Hitler did in the Holocaust was also “cool” since he WARNED the Jews that they had to be “ausrotten” ? Clearly, it was not. Clearly such a suggestion would be idiotic, as is yours.

[paradigm] “I don't know what your interpretation of "clean" means, but obviously Israel wants a clean war with minimal casualties.”

That of course explains why out of the 500 – 750 killed Lebanese, only a small fraction are Hezbollah. And it explains why out of the Israeli killed, about half are military. Sorry, chum, but somebody is killing civilians, and it isn’t Hezbollah.

[paradigm] “Bruno, Hezbollah instigated the conflict.”

I guess a thousand or so Lebanese rotting in Israeli jails without trials is irrelevant to you.

[paradigm] “Hezbollah could have included keeping civilians safe when Hezbollah planned its attack but evidently protecting civilians is not a Hezbollah priority.”

Gee, could this be more Zionist propaganda? Surely not.

Except for the facts on the ground contradict you:


The "hiding among civilians" myth
By Mitch Prothero - Nabatiya, southern Lebanon - WPN - July 28, 2006
“ Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around their targets, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.
But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.
For their part, the Israelis seem to think that if they keep pounding civilians, they'll get some fighters, too. The almost nightly airstrikes on the southern suburbs of Beirut could be seen as making some sense, as the Israelis appear convinced there are command and control bunkers underneath the continually smoldering rubble. There were some civilian casualties the first few nights in places like Haret Hreik, but people quickly left the area to the Hezbollah fighters with their radios and motorbikes.
But other attacks seem gratuitous, fishing expeditions, or simply intended to punish anything and anyone even vaguely connected to Hezbollah. Lighthouses, grain elevators, milk factories, bridges in the north used by refugees, apartment buildings partially occupied by members of Hezbollah's political wing -- all have been reduced to rubble. “//end excerpt

8/03/2006 09:51:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[SW] “There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years.”

Huh! I learn something new everyday. Perhaps you can continue to inform me.

Who was the President of Israel in 1850?

In 1880?

In 1900?

Fact is, there wasn’t. There wasn’t a country called Israel and there wasn’t such an entity. You even admit it in your excerpt:

[SW] “For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people”

For the last fifty years? Only?

I thought that Israel existed for 2000 years?

Apparently not.


[SW] “ For all you ignorant arabs out there, here is a short list (partial) of important jewish/israeli Nobel Prise winners [bla bla bla]”

And the point of your utterly pointless post is … ?

I’m guessing something along the lines of “Jews are better than Arabs, so we can wipe you out”

How about I post an even longer list of GERMAN or EUROPEAN Nobel Prize winners and justify wiping Jews out on that argument?

Really, let’s be serious, don’t waste our time with your crap.


[SW] “This will be my final post, since I can't even begin to explain my disappointment from you guys. You are all potential terrorists, if not already.”

Thank goodness. Jews are supposed to be clever, but you’re dragging that reputation through the mud, that’s for sure. Take a break from your “apple audio devices” and “TFT screen” and crack open a book instead. You might begin to make more sense after a dose of “education”.

8/03/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

Wow Bruno, what a feat of doublethink you have accomplished for yourself. I can't wait to get to the bit where you tell everyone that Hezbollah started this war to protect Lebanese citizens from the Zionist web of deception created by the bloodsucking Israelis who live only to poison the minds of small children.

Bruno, would you be so kind as to name for us the president of Iraq in 1850, 1880 and 1900?

That's right, you can't. But claiming that Iraq as an entity did not exist until it was carved out of the Ottoman empire by the British in 1920 is going to make Khalid want to punch you in the face. So do us all a favour, and stop flogging a dead horse.

8/04/2006 12:55:00 AM  
Blogger SKiZM said...

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
Israel has no right to exist whatsoever. Until we can all accept this simple concept, there will be endless debate and bloodshed. This same scenario would be going on if the Zionists had been dropped off to take over any other place on Earth. Natives just do not like being occupied and having their cultures destroyed. Consider the Mayans (oops) or any number of native american cultures who no longer exist today.
Why don't we just allow all of the displaced Baha'is throughout the world to return to Iran and carve out their own little homeland? Are you positive that the Shi'a would not drill holes in their Baha'i chests, place lit candles into them, and parade them through the streets instead? Fuck it man, just let the African Americans have a portion of the US for themselves. The crackers would really go for that one eh? Just imagine it, waking up tomorrow and suddenly all of Kansas belongs to the brothers and sisters.
The most hilarious part of this, is what proof is there to say Jerusalem is on the correct place on our maps today? The same man who fooled xians into sacrificing pine trees to Tammuz, is the same one who brought you modern Jerusalem.
Jews in Israel descended from Europe, who were descended from Russia, who were descended from the Khazars, who converted to Judaism in 740AD. All of this religious rhetoric is meaningless.
Hey, I am going to convert to Catholicism today, so the Vatican belongs to me now!

8/06/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[paradigm] “I can't wait to get to the bit where you tell everyone that Hezbollah started this war to protect Lebanese citizens from the Zionist web of deception created by the bloodsucking Israelis who live only to poison the minds of small children.”

Actually, to be specific, Hezbollah abducted the soldiers as bargaining chips for the thousands of kidnapped Lebanese and Arab nationals that Israel holds in detention without trial. Even more specifically, it wants the release of 3 Hezbollah men that were supposed to be part of a prisoner exchange with Israel that were in the end not released by Israel. Nothing like a dose of the FACTS to put your paranoia to rest, eh?

[paradigm] “But claiming that Iraq as an entity did not exist until it was carved out of the Ottoman empire by the British in 1920 is going to make Khalid want to punch you in the face.”

Hey, those are the facts, and I’m not going to argue. But there is one important thing you’re leaving out.

Gee, what could it be?

Ummm … ummm …

Oh, yeah, that’s it.

Iraqis have been living in their current abode since the Babylonians were around. They didn’t suddenly arrive in 1900 and start taking over. They didn’t dispossess anybody else for their land. Israel did. Not only that, but Israel destroyed an entity called Palestine, and chased its people out, in order to accommodate itself.

The same entity and people that you lot are claiming never existed.

That’s the BIG difference.

8/07/2006 08:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

Hezbollah was lobbing bombs and forging massacres on the beach long before the abductions you mention Bruno. The irony is, in the weeks leading up to this war the press were all over the body of a dead Palestinian - until it turned out to be the burned almost beyond recognition body of an Israeli soldier. After which point the press dropped it like a hot scone and picked up one of Hezbollah's other fabrications instead.

Asserting that Iraqis have been "living in their current abode since the Babylonians were around" flies in the face of everything all your favourite Iraqi bloggers have ever written. Every single one of them has gone, over the years, to great lengths to describe the breadth and diversity of Iraqi culture, including migration, family ties with Egypt, second passports and identity cards, ties with Jordan, Syria, the Persian community, the Kurdish community... I am doing a disservice to everyone in glossing over it all. Baghdad has been a veritable melting pot for centuries, the crucible of civilisation could hardly have allowed itself to stagnate by being anything less then cosmopolitan. In fact, one of the greatest complaints about the Saddam years, seems to be that he stiffled Iraq's once healthy inbound movement of the people while encouraging exile and mass exodus as Iraqis left to avoid his persecutions.

Iraqi communities can be found all over the world, Holland has Iraqis in such strength that even Dutch politicians have begun talking amongst themselves about the best “angle” to take when canvassing at election time. European Iraqis Bruno, just like European Jews.

So Bruno, have a good think next time before you go peddling the line that Iraqis haven't moved a thumb across the border since whenever it suits your political agenda.

If you read history properly you would understand that Israel began as basically a ghetto not unlike Rafah. Israelis were more or less "kicked out" in an effort to "drive them into the sea". That Israel turned out to be the most successful slum on the block is maybe something Hezbollah's engineers should be trying to emulate, instead of tear apart.

8/07/2006 09:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Read this, it might help you understand the real issue behind this war :


Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world, I, the Prime Minister of Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eye and telling you that the State of Israel will continue its military campaign in Lebanon.

The Israel Defense Forces will continue to attack targets from which missiles and Katyusha rockets are fired at hospitals, old age homes and kindergartens in Israel. I have instructed the security forces and the IDF to continue to hunt for the Katyusha stockpiles and launch sites from which these savages are bombarding the State of Israel.

We will not hesitate, we will not apologize and we will not back off. If they continue to launch missiles into Israel from Kfar Kana, we will continue to bomb Kfar Kana. Today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. Here, there and everywhere. The children of Kfar Kana could now be sleeping peacefully in their homes, unmolested, had the agents of the devil not taken over their land and turned the lives of our children into hell.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you understood: the Jewish state will no longer be trampled upon. We will no longer allow anyone to exploit population centers in order to bomb our citizens. No one will be able to hide anymore behind women and children in order to kill our women and children.

THAT TIME IS NOW OVER !

You can condemn us, you can boycott us, you can stop visiting us and, if necessary, we will stop visiting you.

Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli citizens who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were melted down to dust and ashes by savages in Europe. In both cases, those responsible for these evil acts were, and are, barbarians devoid of all humanity, who set themselves one simple goal: to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the earth, as Adolph Hitler said, or to wipe the State of Israel off the map, as Mahmoud Ahmedinjad proclaims.

And you - just as you did not take those words seriously then, you are ignoring them again now. And that, ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world, will not happen again. No more.

Never again will we wait for bombs that never came to hit the gas chambers. Never again will we wait for salvation that never arrives. Now we have our own air force. The Jewish people are now capable of standing up to those who seek their destruction - those people will no longer be able to hide behind women and children. They will no longer be able to evade their responsibility.

Every place from which a Katyusha is fired into the State of Israel will be a legitimate target for us to attack.
This must be stated clearly and publicly, once and for all. You are welcome to judge us, to ostracize us, to boycott us and to vilify us. But to kill us? No more.

Four months ago I was elected by hundreds of thousands of citizens to the office of Prime Minister of the government of Israel, on the basis of my plan for unilaterally withdrawing from 90 percent of the areas of Judea and Samaria, the birth place and cradle of the Jewish people; to end most of the occupation and to enable the Palestinian people to turn over a new leaf and to calm things down until conditions are ripe for attaining a permanent settlement between us.

he Prime Minister who preceded me, Ariel Sharon, made a full withdrawal from the Gaza Strip back to the international border, and gave the Palestinians there a chance to build a new reality for themselves.

The Prime Minister who preceded him, Ehud Barak, ended the lengthy Israeli presence in Lebanon and pulled the IDF back to the international border, leaving the land of the cedars to flourish, develop and establish its democracy and its economy.

What did the State of Israel get in exchange for all of this?
Did we win even one minute of quiet?
Was our hand, outstretched in peace, met with a handshake of encouragement?

Ehud Barak's peace initiative at Camp David let loose on us a wave of suicide bombers who smashed and blew to pieces over 1,000 citizens, men, women and children.

Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza - what did it get us?
A barrage of Kassem missiles fired at peaceful settlements and the kidnapping of soldiers.

And for six years, the withdrawal from southern Lebanon has drawn the vituperation and crimes of a dangerous, extremist Iranian agent, who took over an entire country in the name of religious fanaticism, and is trying to take Israel hostage on his way to Jerusalem - and from there to Paris and London and the rest of the free world.

Iran has built a massive terrorist network right on our northern border. A network that is constantly arming itself, only waiting for the state of the ayatollahs to become a nuclear sovereign in order to bring us down to our knees. But have no mistake – you the leaders of the free world will go down with us.

So today, here and now, I am putting an end to this parade of hypocrisy.

I don't recall such a wave of reaction in the face of the 100 citizens killed every single day in Iraq. Sunnis kill Shiites who kill Sunnis, and all of them kill Americans - and the world remains silent. And I am hard pressed to recall a similar reaction when the Russians destroyed entire villages and burned down large cities in order to repress the revolt in Chechnya.

I also do not remember such expressions of anger when NATO bombed Kosovo for almost three months and crushed the civilian population - then you also kept silent.

What is it about us, the Jews, the minority, the persecuted, that arouses this cosmic sense of justice in you? What do we have that all the others don't?

Could it be because we do not let television cameras take close-up shots of appalling teenager body parts laying on the ground just after an explosion took place in the dolphinarium night club in Tel-Aviv ?

Was it because we did not let you see the shattered lives of the people butchered in the Park Hotel explosion in the city of Netania ?

Israelis do not go around and flag dead bodies in front of the cameras. We grieve in silence.

We do not go around dancing on the rooftops in sight of our enemies casualties. We feel REAL remorse and regret for loss of any life. This is typical behavior of our enemies.

Today they aim at us, tomorrow it will be you, and have no doubt – that day will come, and much sooner than you think. You have tasted the bitterness of this terror in 9/11 and trust me, this was nearly not the end of it.

In a clear and load voice, I stand now before you, not apologizing, not regretting. This struggle is for our freedom, for our very being and for our survival. It is for our right to lead a normal peaceful life.

But, this is also your struggle, and my only prayer is that you wake up and realize it now, before its too late to act.

Aziz (israeli arab)

8/07/2006 09:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I actually have been a bit impressed by the statements coming out of Israel lately. This one, Aziz, reads more patriotic then the calmer understated ones I've heard in real life with my ears, but I like it all the same. It pretty much sums everything up.

I think I quite like Olmert (although he sounds better then he looks, which reminds me a little of Reagan, I'd vote him out in an instant if he began to behave like the Bushes).

I wonder what Khalid thinks, I suppose he would probably quite like to have a Prime Minister, like Olmert, speaking in defence of Iraq.

- pme

8/08/2006 05:42:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[pme] “Hezbollah was lobbing bombs and forging massacres on the beach long before the abductions you mention Bruno.”

In other words, you acknowledge the fact that Israel has abducted and held hundreds of Lebanese without trial. Thank you. Nothing like agreeing on the basis of the facts at hand, and setting out the proportion of the cause – and – response.

[pme] “Asserting that Iraqis have been "living in their current abode since the Babylonians were around" flies in the face of everything all your favourite Iraqi bloggers have ever written.[…] Baghdad has been a veritable melting pot for centuries.”

A melting pot – fair enough. The central point, however, which you have assiduously tried to avoid, is that Iraqis did not forcibly chase the natives out in the establishment of a foreign homogenous population … unlike Israel. Whereas you will be unable to - other than referring to the vague opinions of “all my favourite Iraqi bloggers” - prove extent of Iraqi intermixing, I can refer you to counted, precise numbers regarding the growth of the Israeli population at the expense of the native Palestinians. That is the difference between the normal ebb and flow of population dynamics and a planned invasion.

[pme] “If you read history properly you would understand that Israel began as basically a ghetto not unlike Rafah. Israelis were more or less "kicked out" in an effort to "drive them into the sea".”

(Ah, yes, the Israeli “woe is me” approach. I’ve missed this for a while.) Ignoring of course the fact that the Israelis used terrorist tactics not unlike Hamas today, in order to secure what they wanted and in order to terrorise the Palestinians off of their lands. This little spot of ethnic cleansing managed to secure 70 – 88% (depending on which source you use) of the Israeli land within the 1948 borders, at the expense of the Palestinian owners.


Aziz --

Let’s see:

"Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world, I, the Prime Minister of Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eye and telling you that the State of Israel will continue its military campaign in Lebanon."

Or

"Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world, I, Adolf Hitler, the Reichsfuhrer of Germany, am speaking to you from Berlin in the face of the terrible pictures from Auschwitz. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eye and telling you that the Third Reich will continue its military campaign against the forces of International Jewery."

Hmm. Hard to tell the difference.

One sounds about as sick as the other.

One sounds about as sincere as the other.

8/08/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

Bruno, "Hezbollah was lobbing bombs and forging massacres on the beach long before the abductions you mention" reads "Hezbollah was lobbing bombs and forging massacres on the beach long before the abductions you mention".

That you can see in there a message that reads "Israel has abducted and held hundreds of Lebanese without trial" is testament to the success of your self-delusion.

Thank you for admitting that you have a fundamental problem acknowledging the central point, which is, you have assiduously tried to avoid that, Israelis did not forcibly "chase" anyone out and were in fact "chased" out themselves.

Thank you for helping to remind everyone of Hitler. Did you know that Haj Amin al-Husseini, a Palestinian, helped to recruit SS drones for the Nazis? Haj Amin al-Husseini collaborated with Nazi Germany and Nazi rhetoric can still be heard among some Palestinians within Hamas and Hezbollah to this day. Perhaps if Haj Amin al-Husseini had been less of a bigot... but no one can change the past without lying.

In actuality, Hitler made no such statement as described by yourself. By the time Auschwitz was uncovered and it's existence made public, between 2 and 4 million people had died there, Hitler was hiding in his bunker and the war was all but over.

8/09/2006 12:31:00 AM  
Blogger SKiZM said...

Oh, Hitler did not actually make those statements?! Wow, I am so glad you decided to clear that up, instead of adressing the point Bruno raised. Of course, similar language WAS used by Hitler or Eichmann in various speeches concerning the false accusations of Poles crossing the border and staging terror attacks.
We must defend the Fatherland!
And also, any number of speeches concerning the false allegations of Communist involvement in the torching of the Reichstag (which we all know was actually burned down by the National Socialists, and explains why the Soviets were so hellbent on claiming the rebuilt Reichstag, where the famous photo of the USSR flag being placed on top occured, even though the building was lightly guarded by a single squad and Hitler's underground bunker was beneath another building altogether).
We must not question the Fuhrer!
Let us not forget Krystallnacht, either. I am certain similar views were expressed to explain that activity as well.
Isn't it strange how the hebrews named their nation after the goddess ISis, the god RA, and the (canaanite) god EL (Saturn)? Even the Sabbath day of worship falls upon SATURnDAY...
*crumbs*

8/11/2006 02:11:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[Pme] "Hezbollah was lobbing bombs and forging massacres on the beach long before the abductions you mention"
[pme] “ That you can see in there a message that reads "Israel has abducted and held hundreds of Lebanese without trial" is testament to the success of your self-delusion. ”

In that case you had better be clearer about exactly what you are saying. Your sentence is ambiguous.

[pme] “Thank you for admitting that you have a fundamental problem acknowledging the central point, which is, you have assiduously tried to avoid that, Israelis did not forcibly "chase" anyone out and were in fact "chased" out themselves.”

Avoid? Um, no, I don’t think so … not since the facts, as usual, support my position.

I refer you to:

Wikipedia – The Palestinian Exodus

“ In 1950, the Absentee Property Law was passed in Israel. It provided for confiscation of the property and land left behind by departing Palestinians, the so-called "absentees". Even Arabs who never left Israel, and received citizenship after the war, but stayed for a few days in a nearby village had their property confiscated. (Fischbach, 1999, p. 23; p. 39) About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees" - persons present at the time but considered absent (Benvenisti, 2002, p. 201).

How much of Israel's territory consists of land confiscated with the Absentee Property Law is uncertain. According to the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Property, it could amount to 70% of the territory:
The Custodian of Absentee Property does not choose to discuss politics. But when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants - an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property - Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980).

The Jewish National Fund's estimate was considerably higher at 88%:

Of the entire area of the State of Israel only about 300,000-400,000 dunums...are state domain which the Israeli government took over from the mandatory regime. The JNF and private Jewish owners possess under two million dumums. Almost all the rest [i.e. about 88% of the 20,255,000 dunums within the armistice lines] belongs at law to Arab owners, many of whom have left the country. The fate of these Arabs will be settled when the terms of the peace treaties between Israel and her Arab neighbours are finally drawn up. The JNF, however, cannot wait until then to obtain the land it requires for its pressing needs. It is, therefore, acquiring part of the land abandoned by the Arab owners, through the government of Israel, the sovereign authority in Israel. (Jewish National Fund, Jewish Villages in Israel, p.xxi, quoted in Lehn and Davis, The Jewish National Fund, Keegan Paul International, 1988, page 132; parenthetical comments by Lehn & Davis)

The absentee property played an enormous role in making Israel a viable state. In 1954, more than one third of Israel's Jewish population lived on absentee property and nearly a third of the new immigrants (250,000 people) settled in urban areas abandoned by Arabs. Of 370 new Jewish settlements established between 1948 and 1953, 350 were on absentee property (Peretz, Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, 1958).”

//end excerpt


Now, since AT LEAST 70% of the land within the 1948 Israeli border is actually stolen Arab land, I think we can put to rest the “we poor Israelis” BS and admit that Arabs were chased off their property which was then confiscated by Israel.

[pme] “In actuality, Hitler made no such statement as described by yourself.”

My, to have “discovered” this you are a regular Sherlock!

It is patently obvious to everybody except the most retarded readers, that my statement is merely a restatement word for word of the Israeli statement, in order to contextualise precisely how insincere and hollow Olmert’s speech sounds.

I guess that just zoomed by you, though.

8/11/2006 06:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

"It is patently obvious to everybody except the most retarded readers, that my statement is merely a restatement word for word of the Israeli statement in order to contextualise precisely... etc etc academic blufferey ra ra ra" - Bruno.

The point being what. That you have learned how to express yourself, from an Israeli? And god knows you need to learn off someone, because copy pasting an entry from the wikipedia when you can't think up your own words shows tardiness. Bruno, you didn't even attempt to put it in your own sentences!

Anyway, it's a good thing you bought up absenteeism. Because that way I can mention how those absentees were persuaded by militant Jew-haters to leave the area while the area was ethnically cleansed of Jews, after which time the absentees were promised they could return to their properties and also to the properties of the Jews, who would be dead. In effect, a lot of those absentees were persuaded to leave by the same lies and promises that have fed zenophobia throughout the ages. That it didn't work out is their own sad fault for believing racist hype.

Regardless of your efforts to stir up hate against Israel, I still believe "Israelis" and "Palestinians" have the potential to live equally in peace with one another. But they must work it out their own way and unfortunately, this involves war as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are lobbing bombs.

The ceasefire is due to come into effect any moment now, no thanks to Bruno, let's hope it proceeds.

8/14/2006 12:54:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[bruno] "It is patently obvious to everybody except the most retarded readers, that …”
[pme] “The point being what.”

Other than establishing which category of reader you fall under? To contextualise precisely how insincere and hollow Olmert’s speech sounds. I don’t mind repeating my words, since clearly you are incapable of grasping something the first time round. Let me know if you need to hear it again. I’m a patient guy.

[pme] “And god knows you need to learn off someone, because copy pasting an entry from the wikipedia when you can't think up your own words shows tardiness. Bruno, you didn't even attempt to put it in your own sentences!”

Actually it indicates a respect for TRUTH and a respect for the FACTS. As opposed to *making stuff up* - as you do. It demonstrates clearly, and to the point, the FACT that Israel is built on stolen land by a bunch of common criminals.

[pme] “Because that way I can mention how those absentees were persuaded by militant Jew-haters to leave the area while the area was ethnically cleansed of Jews”

Really?

That’s odd, I heard rather differently.

I heard that Israeli ethnic cleansing and massacring of women and children (the speciality of the IDF) prompted Arab leaders to evacuate their families for their own safety. Expulsions such as at Lydda, Ramle, Qisarya come to mind, and planned operations such as Operation Hiram, which expelled the Arab residents of Upper Galilee, reinforce the fact that Israel wanted the Arabs out by force if necessary. Unfortunately your spin is just … spin. My facts are facts.

[pme] “But they must work it out their own way and unfortunately, this involves war as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are lobbing bombs. The ceasefire is due to come into effect any moment now, no thanks to Bruno, let's hope it proceeds.”

A truce? That means they stop fighting?

Hmm. Here in my Israeli-English dictionary the definition of “truce” comes out as “Period in which the Arabs stop fighting back and Israelis defend themselves by killing the non-resisting population.”

And it looks as if the facts bear me out … as usual:
Israel says it can target Hizbollah arms despite truce
Reuters - Aug 13, 2006 - By Adam Entous
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel believes it will be entitled to use force to prevent Hizbollah from rearming and to clear guerrilla positions out of southern Lebanon after a U.N. truce takes effect, Israeli officials said on Sunday. Israeli officials said such operations are "defensive" in nature and therefore permissible under a U.N. Security Council resolution which calls for Israel to halt "all offensive military operations".
Ah, the good Israelis, “defending” themselves in somebody else’s country yet again.

Some truce.

We’ll have to coin a new phrase for this: An Israeli Ceasefire.

As in: “Russia declared an Israeli Ceasefire in Chechnya yesterday, and hopes to complete the elimination of the populace by Wednesday.”

8/14/2006 12:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Paradigm my eye said...

"Really? That’s odd, I heard rather differently" (Bruno).

And that's just the point Bruno, all of what you write and copy-paste is based on hear say.

That you quote the Wikipedia and then claim "fact" is even more revealing.

Many people know the Wikipedia is a mutable source of information and anyone can edit it. A wiki is a great repository, but hardly a source of unchanging fact. Wikipedia entries about Israel and Palestine often have a big "contentious" sticker plastered at the top of the page (or similar cautionary warning). The most valuable thing about a wiki, is that it demystifies the written word.

Anyway, it's all really rather plain Bruno, you are resorting to namecalling again because you couldn't beat logic or truth.

I expect not much more from you, either a stream of invective or a tirade of copy-pasted links. I can't see you moving beyond that somehow. What else can you do, when it is clear that Hezbollah started the war and then proceeded to lose hundreds of Lebanese lives for the sake of anti-Israeli rhetoric.

8/16/2006 03:19:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[bruno] "Really? That’s odd, I heard rather differently"
[pms] “And that's just the point Bruno, all of what you write and copy-paste is based on hear say.”

So stop the presses and burn all the books! The great PME has just deemed a second-hand source of information unreliable and illegitimate! One must personally be bombed by Israel or be dispossessed by Israel in order to have a handle on the truth. The Holocaust never happened, because we never lived through it!

What a load of rot. Get a clue, loser.


[PME] “That you quote the Wikipedia and then claim "fact" is even more revealing. Many people know the Wikipedia is a mutable source of information and anyone can edit it.”

That you quote nobody at all and then claim that the facts I present are incorrect makes you nothing more than a repository for hot air. In other words, until you are able to back up your “opinions” with something a little more substantial, your posts are worthless.

[pme] “Anyway, it's all really rather plain Bruno, you are resorting to namecalling again because you couldn't beat logic or truth.”
Logic? I’ve been hammering you over the head with this since I started posting here. I beat WITH logic, that might be more like it. And truth … well, clearly your previous statements indicate that you don’t know what truth is. No comments on Lydda, Ramle, Qisarya? Nothing to say about Operation Hiram?

Truth.

I like it.

8/16/2006 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger Bruno said...

[pme] “What else can you do, when it is clear that Hezbollah started the war and then proceeded to lose hundreds of Lebanese lives for the sake of anti-Israeli rhetoric.”

No, actually the reality is a little more grey than that:

Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong
by George Monbiot - August 9, 2006 – The Guardian


“Whatever we think of Israel's assault on Lebanon, all of us seem to agree about one fact: that it was a response, however disproportionate, to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah. I repeated this "fact" in my last column, when I wrote that "Hizbullah fired the first shots". This being so, the Israeli government's supporters ask peaceniks like me, what would you have done? It's an important question. But its premise, I have now discovered, is flawed.

Since Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May 2000, there have been hundreds of violations of the "blue line" between the two countries. The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) reports that Israeli aircraft crossed the line "ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS" between 2001 and 2003, and "persistently" until 2006.
[…]
In October 2000, the Israel Defence Forces shot at unarmed Palestinian demonstrators on the border, killing three and wounding 20. In response, Hizbullah crossed the line and kidnapped three Israeli soldiers. On several occasions, Hizbullah fired missiles and mortar rounds at IDF positions, and the IDF responded with heavy artillery and sometimes aerial bombardment. Incidents like this killed three Israelis and three Lebanese in 2003; one Israeli soldier and two Hizbullah fighters in 2005; and two Lebanese people and three Israeli soldiers in February 2006. Rockets were fired from Lebanon into Israel several times in 2004, 2005 and 2006, on some occasions by Hizbullah. But, the UN records, "none of the incidents resulted in a military escalation".”

On May 26 this year, two officials of Islamic Jihad - Nidal and Mahmoud Majzoub - were killed by a car bomb in the Lebanese city of Sidon. This was widely assumed in Lebanon and Israel to be the work of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency. In June, a man named Mahmoud Rafeh confessed to the killings and admitted that he had been working for Mossad since 1994.
[…]
But there is no serious debate about why the two soldiers were captured: Hizbullah was seeking to exchange them for the 15 prisoners of war taken by the Israelis during the occupation of Lebanon and (in breach of article 118 of the third Geneva convention) never released. It seems clear that if Israel had handed over the prisoners, it would - without the spillage of any more blood - have retrieved its men and reduced the likelihood of further kidnappings. But the Israeli government refused to negotiate. Instead - well, we all know what happened instead. Almost 1,000 Lebanese and 33 Israeli civilians have been killed so far, and a million Lebanese displaced from their homes.

On July 12, in other words, Hizbullah fired the first shots. But that act of aggression was simply one instance in a long sequence of small incursions and attacks over the past six years by both sides. So why was the Israeli response so different from all that preceded it? The answer is that it was not a reaction to the events of that day. The assault had been planned for months.” //end


There: a precise and detailed analysis showing the true history of this clash … which proves beyond doubt that this incident was merely one of a string of minor incidents perpetrated BY BOTH SIDES.

8/16/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Rhiannon said...

Palestinian children in Israeli prison
Najib Farag , PNN

(Bethlehem)
Wednesday, 13 September 2006

The Palestinian Prisoner Society, legal and childhood rights institutions, and the international and local Red Cross, are pushing for the immediate release of Palestinian minors from Israeli prisons.

Children in Telmond Prison are in dire psychological and physical straights as reported by the Prisoner Society Wednesday. Israeli forces arrested 11 year old Mohammad Abdullah Mousa Othman and 13 year old Rafiq Mohammad Al Eisha nearly three weeks ago.

The western Ramallah’s Beit Ur At Tahta Village boys have been subject to severe beatings at the hands of Israeli soldiers. Members of the intelligence in charge of interrogating the children have beaten and threatened both and forced them to sign statements.

Prisoner Society lawyer Adal Khalaila met with the boys on 11 September and described their situation as "tragic."

Khalaila said, "The minors have been thrown in with their elders and have no knowledge of the rules of law, and are clearly too young to adapt to prison life."

He described Othman as a "tall, skinny boy in prison contrary to all norms of international law. It is also contrary to Israeli law which does not allow arresting Palestinians under 12 years old."

The lawyer reported that Israeli soldiers arrested the 11 year old from the streets of his village on 25 August under the pretext that he had thrown stones at Israeli forces.

The boy was taken to a mountain high above the town and held there for seven to eight hours. He was handcuffed and blindfolded the entire time. One of the Israeli soldiers put his cigarette out in the boy’s hand. Othman was then taken to a military installation for investigation in the Israeli settlement of Givat Ze’ev west of Ramallah in the West Bank. He was interrogated into the morning hours of the second day.

Khalaila stated that due to the boy’s young age and lack of maturity or knowledge of how to handle the torturous investigations that most Palestinian males undergo at some point in their lives, he signed the investigators’ report without knowing the content. "He was under threat and intimidation, beatings and insults."

None of the child’s family members have been allowed to visit him and it remains unknown when or if he will be released. The Israeli military court has held three hearings for the boy since his arrest.

The second minor that the Palestinian Prisoner Society focused on in today’s report is 13 year old Rafiq Mohammad Al Aisha. Israeli soldiers took him in the same manner as the 11 year old: from the streets of Beit Ur At Tahta Village, west of Ramallah, accusing him of throwing stones at Israeli forces.

Khalaila sat with Al Aisha as he reported what has happened to him. Israeli soldiers and interrogators have repeatedly punched the 13 year old in the face and kicked him in the legs and backside. The boy said that he was not throwing stones, denying the charge against him. He was forced under threat to sign a statement of unknown content.

The Prisoner Society attorney reported that both children are experiencing difficulty speaking and expressing themselves, and in understanding what is being said to them. Khalaila concluded reporting the sworn statements by saying that the boys are not pronouncing words clearly.

The Israeli authorities have arrested over 5,000 Palestinian minors since the beginning of the Al Aqsa Intifada in September 2000. Still in Israeli prisons are 350 Palestinians aged 11 through 17 years.

9/17/2006 11:36:00 PM  
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