Over 650 000 souls...
I believe that all of you are familiar with the study of the lancet (you need to register to read it) concluding that over 650 000 Iraqis have been killed since 2003. [check this fact sheets, I should write a post about it].
And then one of the Iraqi blogs known for its support to the occupation, wrote a shameful post denying these results.
And then! Iraqi bloggers decided they had enough of this blog (and the few other blogs supporting the occupation) lies and started to talk about it, one of the Iraqi bloggers, The confused kid have started a mailing list among Iraqi bloggers, in about three days the numbers of emails exchanged was over 150 maybe, and as you would expect when you put any group of Iraqis in a discussion: Lots of really good points, and a bit of swearing and cursing.
The authors of that blog denying the Lancet results were included in the mailing list, nevertheless they didn't say a single word, I wouldn't want to show my face if I was in their place too, people were about to stone them there.
The summery of the debate was prepared, again by the kid, thanks for all your efforts kiddo.
So what are you waiting for people? go to his post to read the details.
On the other hand, the fearless worrier have published a post from the amazing Riverbend that we all missed ( I didn't miss her, hear me Riverbend? I don't even like you, you mean disappearing Iraqi) but I know you missed her because of the emails asking about her flooding my inbox, and I don't know how did that post get to him cause i have been refreshing her page for ever and this post didn't appear to me! Anyways check her post on his blog till we see what's this all about.
During the debate I was so glad to get to know a lot of Iraqi bloggers that I didn't know, I hope i will be able to link to their blogs soon.
UPDATE: Now the post appears on Riverbend blog, go read it:))
UPDATE 2: Majid, the youngest of the Jarrars have blogged again after long months of silence, please click here and go read what he wrote, we are such a smart family! haha:)
And then one of the Iraqi blogs known for its support to the occupation, wrote a shameful post denying these results.
And then! Iraqi bloggers decided they had enough of this blog (and the few other blogs supporting the occupation) lies and started to talk about it, one of the Iraqi bloggers, The confused kid have started a mailing list among Iraqi bloggers, in about three days the numbers of emails exchanged was over 150 maybe, and as you would expect when you put any group of Iraqis in a discussion: Lots of really good points, and a bit of swearing and cursing.
The authors of that blog denying the Lancet results were included in the mailing list, nevertheless they didn't say a single word, I wouldn't want to show my face if I was in their place too, people were about to stone them there.
The summery of the debate was prepared, again by the kid, thanks for all your efforts kiddo.
So what are you waiting for people? go to his post to read the details.
On the other hand, the fearless worrier have published a post from the amazing Riverbend that we all missed ( I didn't miss her, hear me Riverbend? I don't even like you, you mean disappearing Iraqi) but I know you missed her because of the emails asking about her flooding my inbox, and I don't know how did that post get to him cause i have been refreshing her page for ever and this post didn't appear to me! Anyways check her post on his blog till we see what's this all about.
During the debate I was so glad to get to know a lot of Iraqi bloggers that I didn't know, I hope i will be able to link to their blogs soon.
UPDATE: Now the post appears on Riverbend blog, go read it:))
UPDATE 2: Majid, the youngest of the Jarrars have blogged again after long months of silence, please click here and go read what he wrote, we are such a smart family! haha:)
posted by Khalid at 5:29 AM
35 Comments:
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Thanks for the info about Majid posting again. An excellent, thoughtful post! I left a comment for him as I am a graduate of The American University, Washington, D.C., which founded the university in Cairo. I hope he takes full advantage of his experiences there.
You Jarrars are better than smart. You are all brilliant.
You, and others might be interested in what I just posted about the Mahdi Militia on my "Boggling the Mind" blog. As you know, the link is on your Blogger profile.
reach this
Bush to Meet With Gen. Abizaid on Iraq Tactics
Bush to Meet With Gen. Abizaid on Iraq Tactics
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Man, it's KONFUSED, with a 'K'. I'am a big fan or Mortal Kombat, not the Klu Klux Klan.
Hi
I have been thinking about the sectarian killings in Iraq.I can't figure out the reason behind the shia,sunni conflict.It's clear,that some of these guys really hate each other.They commit inhuman attrocities against each other and innocent people whenever and every way they can. Clearly,something seriously bothers them. .Saddam had to crush shia rebbellions in the past
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
nice post Khalid! Good to see you active.
[kk] "Man, it's KONFUSED, with a 'K'. I'am a big fan or Mortal Kombat, not the Klu Klux Klan."
LOL! I always did wonder exactly what the "k" mania stemmed from. :)
I had the misfortune of reading many of the "disagreements" amongst many of my fellow Iraqi bloggers towards ITM's inflamatory segment on the Lancet report. I am VERY disapointed at how many of you reacted..it's just another exapmle of how NONE of us will EVER see our country prosper because we can NEVER agree on anything or even make a simple google group work...how pathetic are we?..I am sometimes ashamed of being Iraqi or an ARAB for that matter, I wish the Americans would just put me out of my misery. It is OUR own fault that our country is in the shape it is, we can no longer blame the Americans for our msifortunes, the future of our country is in OUR hands and we are letting it slip away.
It took a long time for America to become a democracy. A very long time. The USA in its beginning was not a democracy right away, as there were many wars going on within before, finally, a democracy was reached.
The USA should've left Iraq alone. Iraq would have eventually reached their democracy, as well, but the outsiders are causing much of the trouble.
It's a lot more complicated than that. I agree whole heartedly with the information about the death squads = CIA & Mossad - this information is on Nadia's blog.
Who stands to benefit from all this chaos and murder? Israel and the USA.
Besides, the USA doesn't want democracy in Iraq anymore than it doesn't want democracy in Syria, Iran, or Saudi Arabia.
I strongly believe that the sunnis and shia killing each other PLAY RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE NEOCON FRANKENSTEIN ELITE.
This is what they wanted and created all along.
[rhiannon] "I strongly believe that the sunnis and shia killing each other PLAY RIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE NEOCON FRANKENSTEIN ELITE."
Fully. Fact is, the sectarian tensions allow the US to play "balance of power" games with the sides until they have all killed enough members of the opposing faction off so that they are neutralised.
Iraqis have famous tempers, sure, but it takes a spark to light the flame. Strange that whenever the fire gutters, some new incident occurs that heaps on the fuel again. Never forget that the Death squads are linked to the Badr Brigade, which has allied itself with the Americans in Iraq. The Free Iraqi Fighting Force that flew in with Chalabi on USAF jets to Nasiriyah was partly composed of their members.
I am sure, it is not in the interest of the US to have a chaotic Iraq . Looks like at the end its going to be a shia religious .government, similar to the one in Iran, but maybe friendlier to the US and a little more democratic.. The shia are the majority by far ,they will win all elections now and in the future. The sunni resistance is clearly weakening , they should start negotiating now, before its too late.There is a danger that they will end up in refugee camps like the poor Palestinians
[bruno] "The Free Iraqi Fighting Force that flew in with Chalabi on USAF jets to Nasiriyah was partly composed of their members."
The grimace on my dad's face when Chalabi was mentioned on the news in 2004 (or was it 2005?) said it all. Well actually my Dad did some nasty cursing. Yeah, that creepy Chalabi. He should take off his mask and reveal he's a Sharon or Netanyahu wannabe. He would make a great leader for 'israel'.
Don't worry sr, the Iraqi people will be singing the same songs as the Palestinians, as some of them are already. It was the plan all along.
I gotta laugh. Some of those poor deluded little christian zionists are talking about Arab-smuggled suitcases of bombs already in the USA. Hah! I know suitcases that are much more deadlier than those 'fictional suitcases' - the ones slid under tables and through back doors filled with $$$$CASH$$$$ to the Iraqi 'leaders' and 'politicians' and 'whoever else'. Just so they keep the arguments flowing and make sure no solutions are reached.
Meanwhile, more innocents are murdered while the Mossad, CIA, Demented Iraqi VIPs and their gangs do a tango to the the Neocon-Frankentstein Waltz.
============================
It may not be in the interest of the regular folk of the USA (whose sons and daughters are dying on a pack of lies) to have a chaotic Iraq, but it serves the Neocon government and 'israel' very well.
rhiannon) If the US would pull out and the christian zionist neocon-Frankanstein guys would stop interfering ,than this Badr chap would have the best chance for the presidency.His followers are many and fanatically love him,his enemies are scared of him to death.Who would dare to oppose him.The perfect candidate for the 21 st century Iraq.
He is almost there,only the US presence is holding him back, barely.You are right,nobody should interfere.Let it be.But dont cry, after it happens.
[sr] "He is almost there,only the US presence is holding him back, barely."
I think you are confusing Badr and Sadr. Two different things, which, if you knew what they were, would be deeply ironic. There are layers of meaning in your comment that you have no idea of.
(bruno)Thanks for the correction.Sadr.The guy in black with the Mahdi Army.
California Firefighters Fear Wind Could Push Deadly Blaze Toward Homes, Arson Probed
this is pretty dangerous
[sr] "Everybody wants Iraq to succeed.It is sad to see ,that the country is going towards an abbyss,"
Aw, such sweet concern. Gee thanks for your warmth and tenderness.
***
Slyly pulling in those Iranians and Syrians along side those Mossad agents, huh?
***
As if one man's deeds are the same has the other and all is fine and fair in the world?
Kind of lame, as there is no comparison between the Mossad and Iranian/Syrians. Interesting how you brought up Iranians and Syrians. You just couldn't resist slipping them in, could you? Right next to the Mossad, as if to dilute the sociopathic behavior of the Israeli Super Intelligence Agency.
Kind of like comparing the Jolly Green Giant to a bunch of little corn and pea tots.
Gotta hand it to the Mossad, they really have it all, so deadly to reckon with, and so strongly supported by so many zionist organizations all over the USA.
Victor was a good man. Glad he finally saw the light. We need more Victors in the world, sr, WOULDN'T YOU AGREE??
You dare to bring up the UAE?
They are quietly on the side of 'israel' dearie.
THEY HAVE TO BE. THE UAE HAVE NO CHOICE.
What? You didn't know? Why do I get the feeling that you do.
Was that suppose to pacify me, BTW?
Basically, you did agree with me, but if you think you can wash away the evil and vile disgusting odors of Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Kristol, Falwell, Ayalon, Gillerman, and so many of their ilk - as if it is of no consequence - FORGET IT. NO SALE!
There's a conspiracy. There's been many. It's called the Neocon Elite Conspiracies - The ZIONIST-NEOCON ENTITY (the creator of conspiracies) is alive and well and living in New York, Washington D.C. 'israel', and the bible belt of the USA.
===============
"Surely he is not controlled by the free masons.I hope."
Now you're just playing games. What do the free masons have to do with Sadr and Hussein?
What did I just get done saying?
These men play into the hands of the Zionists. And the Zionists love them for it. It makes their job so much easier.
Oh, I get it. There's no zionist conspiracy as you say.
Let me see what you said again:
"Surely he is not controlled by the free masons.I hope."
Ah. You give yourself away.
(rhianon)The only conspiracy that I know about is the Islamist conpiracy.To make the world into a big Khalifat ruled by Al Quaida.
Israel needs a big army and secret agents.Its a tiny country,surrounded by enemies.I dont believe that Israel is solely responsible for the Palestinian problem either.This saga would have been solved long ago,if its not for the interference of the arab governements.In fact,it started in 1948 becouse of this interference.
"I dont believe that Israel is solely responsible for the Palestinian problem either.This saga would have been solved long ago,if its not for the interference of the arab governements.In fact,it started in 1948 becouse of this interference."
Now THAT is just plain utter absurdity. You have no idea what you are talking about. You must learn how to read, think properly, and type your words. You are in dire need of an education of some sort.
Otherwise, you come on as silly, foolish, and simply - a plain old dull liar.
You no NOTHING of the history of the savage massacres planned by the Zionist organization in the USA and Europe against the Palestinians.
Go back to school and come back in - say - five years or so, when you have something decent to say besides quotes from the funny papers.
So much to say, so much ignorance.
No wonder Iraq is hell on earth.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to play with matches, nevermind advocate foreign policy.
Well actually the UAE do have a choice but they want to keep their riches - so they're cowards.
What would happen if they stopped laying down for USA/'israel'? and put up a fight?
It would be interesting. But it won't happen.
I need to ask a question. Anybody can answer it if they want. But I'm posing the question to two people in particular as I want their response. But anyone else can answer if they want.
I was listening on a blog with some israelis talking - and Khalid and Bruno - tell me how you would respond. It's just that I never heard this before and I am quite stumped by it.
Some of the israelis on this blog say that they are Jewish atheists. They say they are atheists but that they are still jews. They say they can be both.
Sorry that this is off topic (well it could be on topic in a strange, indirect way) but what would you guys say to someone who told you that they were Jewish atheists? How would you respond?
Hey SKiZM, if you are out there still, I wouldn't mind your thoughts either.
It would be a great help.
THANKS!
[rhiannon] "Sorry that this is off topic (well it could be on topic in a strange, indirect way) but what would you guys say to someone who told you that they were Jewish atheists? How would you respond?"
I don't see the contradiction, really. While being "jewish" may be primarily seen as a religious question, the truth is that one can be an ethnic Jew as well. In other words, an ethnic Jew (Jewish blood) can be a religious Jew as well or not. An ethnic Jew that does not believe in the existance of God would to my mind be a Jewish Atheist.
Well what about this:
The Jewish faith being a monotheistic faith basically means to believe in one God. Atheists do not believe in God. Just because they celebrate the Holidays does not mean they believe in God.
Just like people who do believe in God, but some decide not to celebrate the Holidays.
Gotta tell you Bruno, I have never liked the term 'ethnic Jew'. I don't regard Judaism as a nationality.
How about this instead?
Wouldn't it be better to just say that one is an Atheist? Why pit "Jewish" and "atheist" side by side?
Let me ask you then:
Have you ever heard any one person ever say (in your life) that they were a Christian atheist or Jewish atheist or Muslim atheist?
Usually atheists hardly ever discuss the religion of their background, what they were born into, because they usually don't like religion.
Do you see where I am going?
Khalid, I would really love your input!
Stop studying!
[rhiannon] "Wouldn't it be better to just say that one is an Atheist? Why pit "Jewish" and "atheist" side by side? Let me ask you then: Have you ever heard any one person ever say (in your life) that they were a Christian atheist or Jewish atheist or Muslim atheist? [...] Do you see where I am going?"
Your comments are interesting. I haven't given this particular idea much thought. Myself, I would indeed simply just say that I am an atheist. So I guess I agree with you there.
On the other hand, the "jewish atheist" may be referring to the fact that he accepts the Jewish trappings and cultural conventions, but that he does not necessarily believe in God. I believe that Raed once described himself as a "secular Muslim", which to my mind would be pretty much the same thing.
A question for you now: why is this categorisation important?
FANTASTIC BRUNO!
Thanks for responding and glad you ask!
I will answer you in a while.
Here's the thing. I was having a dialogue with an israeli on another blog - you can imagine the warfare - so then he brings up that he is an atheist Jew.
Now I start to have fun with him, mocking him.
THen I got to wondering.... what OTHER people would say about this jewishatheist term.
I actually did a mini survey with a few people on other blogs.
Would you believe, most of the Muslims were not suprised, hardly cared, and were even amused as some said "well that is an israeli for you, that is how they are."
The Jews and Christians who follow their faith, whether strongly or just averagely, were most annoyed.
Both of these faiths consider the the terms pitted together absolute nonsense, a person who is ignorant, or a person who is confused.
Some Atheists who are not zionists gave some excuses for the term but still declared that they do not mix their atheism with any religious term as it is silly to them.
Other Atheists who are not zionists found it ridiculous and absurd and say you either believe in this "God" thing or you don't. Religion is totally repugnant to them and would never associate themselves with a faith.
So if one dared to pry a religious background out of a hardcore atheist or agnostic, I am sure plenty of tact and courage would be needed - if one was curious enough.
My whole point?
The Zionist atheists agree with the jewish atheist term. They do not refute it at all. And when I have called some of them atheist jews I get absolutely no charge out them. They are not offended.
If someone called me a Muslim atheist, I would be offended and quite disgusted.
Therefore:
zionist=jewishatheist=game-playing-truth-distortion and manipulation.
A person of strong Christian faith answered me with this and I liked the answer very much:
"Basically what this “Jewish” person is saying is that to be a child of God is of no importance but to be a Jew is everything.
Of course he is wrong but that is what he is saying.
But then why wouldn’t he regard his jewishness highly, even if it makes no sense?
He has been wined and dined and thought of as a highly prized individual by Christian Zionists for so long that he has begun to believe that load of crap.
The Bible makes it utterly clear that to be a jew or not is of no significance in our relationship to God. God is no respector of any race."
{rhiannon] "I know PLENTY of atheists and agnostics who are very decent people - who love to poke holes at religion, if you let them - but they are also NOT zionists."
As I said, I'm and atheist and certainly not a Zionist. Look, to be honest, I can sympathise with the idea of a Jewish homeland. What they underwent under the Nazis was not a joke.
BUT ... the moment somebody ELSE - in this case the Palestinians - have to lose in order for the Zionists to achieve their aims, them I am against them. What the Palestinians have undergone is a crime. If an island suddenly rose up in the Atlantic and all the Jewish Zionists went to live there in a Jew-only country, more power to them. That would solve a lot of problems. The rest of us could ignore them and leave them to rot if we wanted to.
And, I agree that Israel is a primary cause of the problems in the ME.
Bruno,
I have had a lot of dialogue with Zionists and if there is one simple fact about them it is this, they all say the same things. It is like they are robots learning from a zionist 'How To' manual. THey enjoy confusing and aggravating people. One of the things that they love to say when the discussion is about the Palestinians:
Well what about the North American Indians?
What about Darfur?
As if THEY care about Darfur and the North American Indians. It's not the same thing at all, anyway.
How would you react to the mention of Darfur and the NAI when there is a discussion going on about Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine?
Kerry Apologizes to Troops, Families for 'My Poorly Stated Joke'
good for him
[r] "How would you react to the mention of Darfur and the NAI when there is a discussion going on about Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine?"
On the one hand, the question is more profound than it seems, because the elimination of the Native Americans has been legitimised through the creation of small reserves and the march of history. Is this right? What sort of culpability do the descendants of the original settlers bear? I have thought about these questions a lot since I am from South Africa and we have similar issues.
On the other hand, it is certainly true that the Zionist colonisation program is CURRENT and ongoing, and therefore directly impacts the morality and legitimacy of THIS generation of Israelis. If Israel had been created 250 years ago and the borders were set in stone, the discussion would be harder ... but it's not. Its like a creeping cancer. If Israelis killing Palestinians in order to steal their property is OK, then I submit that Germans killing Jews in WW2 in order to steal what they had is also OK.
We're out of the river and into the murky waters of a swamp, right now.
Yes, Bruno, I agree with you. I appreciate your take on the situation.
It amazes me how many "blamers" there are in this world. Plenty in America and as it appears even more in Iraq. Always someone elses fault. In fact, all of the current violence is America's fault?? Give me a break and wake up. If you violent, hateful, maniacs who continue to kill each other and any one else who comes in your sights in the name of religion could just stop, the US would be out of there in a minute. You do not understand the presuure being created to get out.Whatever reasons the US had for going there they should definitely leave and the sooner the better. Oh and one more thing....once another alternative method of energy comes to market, and 1 is right around the corner, the entire middle east will once again be relegated to complete irrelevance. In other words you can go back to throwing sand at each other because the rest of the world will not care and you will have other bigger issues to worry about...like how to feed yourselves as opposed to kill each other over religion.
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